To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #561: Msgs 7048-7057 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 27 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #561: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 561  7048 22-Mar-1994 Brian Makens     Some PoT Observations << Warning, there
 561  7049 22-Mar-1994 john.bogan@asb.  OLD AND NEW << Susan (or is it Allan?) 
 561  7050 23-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  My Campaigns << David Johnson asked for
 561  7051 23-Mar-1994 b.woods6@genie.  Where'd R&D go wrong? <<  
 561  7052 23-Mar-1994 "Pedro A.C. Tav  Sttuter warp architecture? << This mess
 561  7053 23-Mar-1994 Anthony "K." Ba  CyberTraveller <<  
 561  7054 23-Mar-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     70:13/7039 Newpapers? << Subject: 70:13
 561  7055 23-Mar-1994 john.bogan@asb.  "PATH" OVERVIEW << Here's an extended r
 561  7056 23-Mar-1994 "James M. Kelle  Some Campain stuff << Hello
 561  7057 24-Mar-1994 muskrat500@aol.  Submission << To all who are interested

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7048
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 19:46:04 -0800
From: bjm@dsc.com (Brian Makens)
Subject: Some PoT Observations

Warning, there are spoilers about Path of Tears below, please
skip to the next article, if you have not read the book yet 
and are concerned about that type of thing.


First off, I have not been a fan of the TNE era and have
made my share of snotty remarks about GDW.(I suggested a
wake for the Imperium last april and made references to maniacal
butcher knife attacks on TNE authors among other things).

That all being said, I liked the Path of Tears. I thought
it was of the best products I have seen come out of GDW
in years. Some of the best planetary detail yet. (Though
that could have just been as easily done as a "Client States of the Imperium"
book without the murder of the Third Imperium being necessary ;-). )

My mental picture of the Reformation Coalition is a lot more
flattering that I thought it would be. GDW actually makes
"killing the locals and taking home the neat stuff that don't belong
to us"(the SAG mission) seem like a noble and self sacrificing
endeavour! Forgetting the  bombed cities, dead civilians and 
crying babies and all that stuff that goes with clobbering the opposition. 
At least the original Space Viking(Prince Trask) in the H.Beam Piper
novel used to get nightmares about dead childeren. It don't seem 
to bother the RCES.

The political structure and currents of the RC are
quite well described as well as RC motivation.

That being all the good things, I have  a few observations
about this RCES gaming universe for GDW's consumption.

	1. I like the Guild, but haven't they been set up
	  as a straw man opponent? From what is described
	  they appear to be both too strong in actions and 
	  too weak in supporting capabilities. We're told 
	  that they are not a government, but in PoT, their
	  agents appear to be everywhere. The Guild seems
	  to have designed and manufactured  tanks and
	  all sorts of weaponry. Where are the factories
	  and designers?(I can't believe its all done
	  by ships crew during jump transit) Either the
	  guild is a group of derelict ship captains in
	  a sub sector or two, who couldn't possibly
	  support this infrastructure, or its a force
	  thats at least as strong as the RC.(wheres
	  the worlds it controls then?)

       2. If the Guild is going to be the big bad guy.
	  I suggest the GDW come out with a a source book
	  for them. I wouldn't mind playing guild characters.
	  Give the support to be a guild agent, guild ship
	  captain or slaver. Explain the economics of
	  slavery in this environment. 

       3. I kinda like the idea of the Guild being the
	  anarchists of space.(makes you wonder if they
	  fly the black flag of anarchy). But in all
	  seriousness, I don't know if their attitude
	  towards multi-planet government is likely.
	  Sure, gov't caused the mess, but I bet that
	  any one of those merchant captains would 
	  prefer to have a big navy cruiser commin' to the
	  rescue with lasers and particle accelerators 
	  a flashing, when a pirate starts chasing the cargo.
	  Remember, the merchant's ships big problems
	  arose when the gov't ceased to exist.

	4. The wild's strangely enough is more civilized
	   than I think it should be. There seems to be
	   mostly Tech level 5-9 worlds out there. There
	   seems to be a lot of ships(free trader and guild)
	   still plying the space ways.(where are the pirates?)

	   Some of the these worlds, don't make sense. Worlds
	   have "data priests" that are in the tech 5-9 eras.
	   Given that we are talking 20th Century technology,
	   it takes a rather sophisticated population to support
	   such a technology(just take a good look around you).
	   A population that can support tech 5-9 just doesn't
	   seem the type to go in for supersitious data priests.
	   I consider the data priest in that tech level as
	   dumbfounding as the Virus itself. I quite believe
	   that data priests could be found in 2-3, but in
	   tech 5-9, too much of the population has
	   to support the technology, for a data priest syndrome
	   to really set in.(IMHO)

        5. TED model seems to be too simplistic for the worlds
	   described. (Mass balkanization seems to have occurred).
	   The general impression that GDW gives is every TED is
	   a bum whom the population could care less about. Anybody
	   who is leading a nation >=4 in tech level and with
	   at least hundreds of thousands and greater population,
	   is actually setting on a fairly sophisticated and
	   bureaucratic state(have to be it wouldn't run otherwise).
	   These nations got created somehow, where is the force
	   of nationalism? Maybe in the description of the
	   gov'ts GDW should give a loyalty of the population
	   indicator(from openly seditous, to indifferent,
	   to your basic throw yourself in the line of fire to
	   protect our sainted TED). Let me use a real world example,
	   Iraqi's(the lower tech zips) have been merrily overthrowing
	   their TEDS for years, now the US(re RCES) and others come
	   around and try to force the current TED out, and
	   between the TED's terror and the locals rallying
	   around the TED(because he's OUR bloody TED and
	   no outsider is going to tell us what to do), the
	   TED gets stronger and stays in power for a record
	   length of time(i.e stronger state apparatus than
	   apparent and force of nationalism than TED model
	   implies).


	   Well, enough ranting, I actually did enjoy the product.


			Brian J. Makens 	bjm@dsc.com
			Digital Sound Corporation
			Carpinteria, Ca


				



------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7049
From: john.bogan@asb.com
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 15:39:04 
Subject: OLD AND NEW



Susan (or is it Allan?) M. Shock said:

> I'm a little ticked off at the TNE rules, but I have no beef with 
> the setting.

> What I DO get annoyed with is people who seem to forget that 
> this is FICTION.
  So what if Virus is scientifically impossible? 
> JUMP DRIVES are impossible! The
 damn thruster plates are impossible! 

Sure it's fiction.  But remember that little trait of fiction
called "SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF"?  What would your reaction be
to a scenario where the players' ship has a drive failure during
gas giant refuelling, and they crash-land on a solid surface, 
with a breathable atmosphere, and meet inhabitants that seem strangely
like the denizens of Flash Gordon's planet Mongo?

 Either you're goining to say to yourself "ok, this is THAT kind of 
campaign" (which doesn't pretend to any degree of realism), or you're 
going to say "Bulls**t!". For some people, the Virus hits their 
"B.S.!" buttons and wrecks their suspension of disbelief.  They play 
Traveller  for a campaign that to them seems at least mostly 
realistic, and to them, the Virus is as out of place as 
Voltan's Hawkmen.

> All of the best science-fiction I've ever
 read was about PEOPLE,
> not things;

Actually, they weren't about PEOPLE either.  Personnel files are 
about PEOPLE.

All the best fiction (science and otherwise) is about people AND
the CHOICES they make, the ACTIONS they take, and how they deal
with the CONSEQUENCES of those actions...

>things work just because they work.


 ...and often, those choices and actions are determined by what
their equipement can do, which can in turn depend on HOW it works.
Can you use the HEPlaR thrusters on a grav-bike as a makeshift
plasma gun?  Enquiring players are going to want to know, and 
GMs sometimes have to think things through before they decide
which way to go. {By the way, No, they can't use it that way}

Another thing is the effective endurance of maneuver drives.
Either it's practically unlimited (thruster plates, house-rules
modified HEPlaRs) or not (GDW-standard HEPlaRs).  Whichever
one you pick, it's going to have an effect on combat, refuelling,
system defense, a host of issues where it can become important.
And if you DON'T pick one and stick with it, the players are going 
to start asking how it is that they can zip all over a system to
their hearts' content, but whenever another ship shows up
they suddenly have a fuel limit.

> Also, a lot of people have been complaining that TNE is just 
> T:2000 in space
 and I submit that this has to do with emphasis 
> placed by the players and the GM
 in the campaign. In my campaign, 
> the Star Vikings are an EXPLORATORY force.
  They view themselves 
> as descendants of the IISS. They are combat-trained, yes,
and 
> they aren't afraid to use that training, especially when pursuing 
> their
 secondary goal of recovering lost technology, but 
> reexploration and rediscovery
 is the primary emphasis.

Fair enough, but please admit your version is a tad different
from how the RCES were presented in SURVIVAL MARGIN and the
TNE rulebook.  Admittedly this is a caricature, but the Star Vikings
have come across more like:

     "Once upon a time, there was the Dawn League, who sent out 
twelve ships to recontact the worlds cut off since the Collapse.
     "The brave captain smiled a great big grin. 'Hi there' he said,
'I'm Captain Bernard Kirk of the Dawn League Starship Enterprise.
 Can you and I be friends?'   **BLAM!!!** was the response.
       "When word got back to the DL, they cracked their knucles,
tightened their headbands, stuck BIIIIIG knives in their sheathes,  
locked and loaded their ACRs, picked their nifty call signs, and
said 'OK, if that's the way you want it....' and now they're on
a mission from God recover old Imperial technology, because they
can use it better than the people who own it."

And that last part isn't a caricature at all.  Reread all the 
first-person "atmosphere" passages and the "historical commentary."

Historian 1: "They were killers, MURDERERS, Ravagers!"

Historian 2: "True, but so what?  They won, didn't they?"

If the RCES saw themselves as the heirs to the legacy of the
Imperial (spit on ground) scout service, would they view the
Wilds as "diseased", to be cured with "star-hot plasma, RAM
grenades, and coherent light"?

What's the title of the first TNE published adventure (slated for
release next month)?  "Smash and Grab"  Real idealistic, real heroic.

What was the name of the RC sourcebook BEFORE they changed it to
"Path of Tears"?  According to the promotional flyers from last year,
it was originally going to be called "REAVERS".  You remember
who the Reavers were, don't you?  Organized raiders plundering
the leftovers of an interstellar collapse (the Long Night), vultures
feeding off the carcass of a dead civilization.

So don't point to PoT and say "see, I was right and you were wrong".
I'd be willing to put money down that the year's worth of grumbling-
to-outright-hostility woke GDW up to the fact that the RCES had 
a wee bit of an image problem, and that had some effect on how
things were presented in PoT.  They sure as hell changed to
title to something less bloodthirsty.

>  I think the griping about the changes in the Traveller 
> universe tech is
 about 50% legit and 50% simple complaining by 
> people who can't tolerate change.


I think the ratio is more like 80-90% legit and 20-10% carping.
A lot of these changes have been done through some pretty 
ham-handed rewriting of some tried-and-true Traveller concepts, 
like the absolutely, positively, 100% unbeatable and unforgable
Deyo circut transponders, which even powers antagonistic to the 
Imperium bought and installed on their ships, without a clue
as to how they worked.
  For people who LIKED the Imperial setting, the number and sheer
scale of the changes gave the feeling of a bull in a china shop.
The was a LOT for people to complain about.

However, some of us out here are trying to find reasonable
ways to mesh the old and new concepts together in a palatable
fashion.  With the TNE, FF&S, and BL rules as they stand I
don't think there are any fundamentally insurmountable hurdles to
that goal, but there are many, many, MANY niggling little points
that have to be looked at an clarified to figure out the best
way to that in a way that WORKS in ANY era, not just the New one.

And that, my friend, is why a lot of us are wondering about things
like if B class starports can make microjump drives, system defense
arangements with limited-thrust ships, and how the bloody HEPlaRs
work.

> I am annoyed with some of the rules glitches (and some things that 
> aren't
 glitches, such as firearms skills being based off STR and the 
> autofire rules)
but I don't give a rip about changes to maneuver 
> drives. Reactionless thusters,
 HEPlar fusion drives...hell, I 
> wouldn't care if they had to get out and PUSH if
 it made a good 
> story.
 

That may be fine for you, but that's not true for everyone.
I know the people I game with, and even if I don't care how
the maneuver drives work, eventually the players are going
to try something that will MAKE me care about it.
If you have a problem with that, tough.

> All I know is that the New Era background lets me tell the 
> kind of stories I
like to tell. That's why I like the background.



And for a lot of people, it cuts off the kind of stories THEY
like to tell.  That's why they DON'T like it.  Again, if you
think that's just obstinate griping, well, they don't like
your attitude either.  To each their own.

John H Bogan

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7050
Date:         Wed, 23 Mar 94 01:13:16 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      My Campaigns

David Johnson asked for details on campaigns, so I will share mine.
I'm running two concurrent campaigns with the New Era rules; one set in the
Reformation Coalition circa 1201, and the other set in the old Imperium
circa 1106. In fact, I'm running the "Secrets of the Ancients" series (Adv 2
"Research Station Gamma", Adv. 3 "Twilight's peak" and Adv 12 "Secrets of the
Ancients", for the newbies). My players are enjoying themselves immensely
after a somewhat rocky start due to rules glitches. One guy quit the RC game
because he was ticked off that his laser rifle couldn't penetrate the armor
of robots (the police bots from TNE), but everyone else uses slugthrowers,
so they did okay. The folks in the "Old Era" game really enjoyed "Gamma"; one
person, who has been into Traveller forever and has played that adventure
before said he enjoyed it more with the TNE rules.
   To Anthony K. Baggeley: I did not mean to seem critical of Twilight 2000.
I like the game quite a bit. It's just that, especially in the early modules,
there was no mistaking the fact that everything had gone to Hell in a
handbasket. It was depressing and downright sad at times to think of that
happening-which is the type of setting where heroes shine even brighter-when
you can convince people to play them. I also understand what you mentioned
about CP 2020 (another game I enjoy), and your comments about Cybergeneration
make me want to check it out. I don't mind "dark" settings unless they seem
hopeless. That's why I like TNE; the "phoenix rising from the ashes" bit
always gets me.
   Oh, and by the way; I am definitely ALLEN Shock. My name has appeared
with question marks recently on posts both here and on gdw-beta. My wife
lets me use her account to keep me off of more expensive long-distance
bulletin boards. Nothing compares to the Internet, anyway.
   Oh, and one more thing, while I have taken it upon myself to defend TNE
from it's detractors, I have both CT and MT, and still run CT from time to
time (like this Thursday night). Traveller in all  it's forms is far above
anything else.

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7051
From: b.woods6@genie.geis.com
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 08:47:00 BST
Subject: Where'd R&D go wrong?

 
 In Archive-Message-Number 7023, james@camscan.co.uk (James Dening)
 writes:
 
 >In reply to Brent Woods:
 >>> current Imperial technology should be utterly immune to any
 >>> invasion of that type.  In other words, the Virus should be
 >>> impossible...
 >
 >I disagree.
 >
 >You cannot say that simply because the Cymbeline chips are old, that
 >what is *in* them (i.e. software) will be limited to current tech
 >capabilities of the time.
 
     Well, actually, I can say that.  However, that's not what I said.
I wasn't addressing the software at all.  I was talking about the actual
_hardware_.  The confusion is my fault, though--I should have been more
explicit.
 
     What I meant was that the hardware (the computer itself) should
have developed in directions and to degrees that would leave doped
semiconductors far enough behind that they would be curiosities on the
order of Babbage's Analytical Engine.
 
     You see, the Virus was so insidious because it could _alter the
actual hardware that it ran on_.  In effect, it hardcoded itself into
the machine itself.  In this way, it emulated the effects of some actual
biological viri:  it invaded its host and immediately started altering
"DNA" (okay, processors and ROM analogs; the analogy still holds, I
think).
 
     Now, the Deyo series of adaptive transponders were, according to
published sources, based on semiconductor intelligences (lifeforms, if
your definition is flexible enough) discovered on the planet Cymbeline.
These intelligences were in turn based on chips from a crashed Solomani
starship.  (I believe this was in _Survival Margin_--unfortunately, I'm
right in the middle of moving, so my books are boxed and in transit.)
These chips, in the unique environment of the surface of Cymbeline,
evolved into analogs of biological lifeforms.
 
     In the ensuing time (approximately 3000 years, if memory serves),
however, progress should have marched on and doped semiconductors should
have passed into obsolescence, replaced by newer and more capable
technologies (optical?  Josephson junction?  Nanomechanisms?  I see no
way of predicting).
 
     Now, am I asking too much of the development engineers?  I don't
think so.  Look at the development of technology over the past 70 years
(why 70? Well, my mother is 70 years old--I can ask someone *who is
still alive* about the development of technology over that period).  70
years ago (1924), commercial radio was still a novelty.  18 years later,
my mother was working for RCA installing radios in jeeps.  How about
computer technology?  I have *very* clear memories of hollerith cards.
 
     While useful, I personally believe that the Deyo series was really
too dangerous to be practical.  Implementing the transponders using an
obsolete technology *no longer used anywhere else* strikes me as an
excellent safety measure.
 
     Irony:  Too bad it didn't work.  ;-)  I seem to have broken a
spring in my disbelief suspension.  ;-)
 
- --
     Brent Woods
 
     INTERNET:  b.woods6@genie.geis.com (preferred) and
                ioc!bwoods@attmail.com
     USNAIL:    1401 N Medford Ave.  /  Indianapolis IN  46222
     MABELL:    +1 (317) 231-9510
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7052
Date:         Wed, 23 Mar 94 15:58:03 PRT
From: "Pedro A.C. Tavares" <FTAVARES%PTEARN.BITNET@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR>
Subject:      Sttuter warp architecture?

This message is being posted to the 2300 list and to the TML also.  I take
the opportunity to tell everyone to let me know if you asked to be included in
the 2300 list and haven't received any mail.  If that's the case I probably
have your email wrong.  People how contacted me less than two weeks ago are
excluded because I haven't replied to those requests.

Now for the Stutter Warp:  I find no reference to what exactly does it look
like.  In the Ships of the French arm some seem to have a exhaust (the Keneddy
class for example).  Others don't fit in to this type of construction.
Is there any source that clarifies this point?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pedro A.C. Tavares

Faculdade de Ciencias - Universidade de Lisboa

Email: ftavares@ptearn.bitnet
       ftavares@ptearn.fc.ul.pt
       ftavares@scosysv.cc.fc.ul.pt
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7053
From: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 15:34:59 GMT
Subject: CyberTraveller

 
 Alistair Langsford asked...

>What world characteristics do people think would be appropriate for the 
>development of a cyberpunk style society in Traveller? I tend to think an 
>Early Stellar tech, High Population world at least is required (or the 
>world is a colony of such a place). What else - Government type?

Well, on a general level, remember CP means different things to
different people- it's all a question of attitude. So it might be
possible to get outcasts from society using the cutting edge of technology 
to fight the government or corperations at TL4. (hmmm, people hacking
the TL4 telegraph system using imported TL 7 laptops... that could be an
interesting planet to visit. I'll think about that some more...)

As for the "Cyber" part- IT, bionics and neural interfacing- yes Early
Stellar seems to allow reasonable bionics, but for the neural 
interfacing most Traveller material suggests TL12-13 as far as I can
remember, and even higher for the more advanced forms. Of course Trav
predates CP, so it's TLs don't reflect a CP view of technological
development, or even mention it.

You asked about governments- I'd suggest that the government code has
always been rather flexible. You could probably have any code on a 
world with a CP background- or that 2nd Survey data might just be wrong.
I don't think it should stop you using any world that otherwise looks
suitable.

Population- yes, high population tends to be part of it, but consider
a lower pop world where the there is little living space, it could 
easily be as crowded as Los Angeles 2019 (the obvious CP example)

Would bionics be acceptable in the Imperium- it actually varies. 
Generally it's been said that there is a general distrust of any
cyborgs. It's worse in Margrets area, but people I know in HIWG
put a reasonable amount of such tech in Gush...ge (I cann't spell it,
Real Strephon's domain) and Dagudashagg, claiming they had less
of a cultural bias against it. Your choice on the Spinward Marches as
far as I know.

Organ Legging- not a large scale interstellar business. At least I've
never heard it being mentioned. A lot of the high-pop worlds are so
high-tec they can regrow or clone most of what you need anyway,
working from descriptions of Medical Tech in Travellers Digest. It cuts
out a huge section of the possible market.
Just on-planet, or between a small circle of planets with the right pop/
technology balance it almost certainly happens. The Imperium is a big
place. 

Possible planets in the Marches?- well I know people have used Efate as
a CP background- high pop. and tech. low law-level, it certainly fits 
better than some.
CP in Traveller has the extra twist that people can import higher 
technology if they have the money- not common in most CP.

And don't forget that even the nicest POP A, TL G planet probably has
some mean streets...

                           -----------------------

Re; Traveller Background and Rules

David Johnson mentioned...
>This is really of interest to me.  One of the `failings' of Traveller IMHO
>has always been the focus on combat skills - hence the expanded character

Yes, the rules really do a background works out in play. Traveller has a
lot of combat skills and equipment, but it's rules tended to make combat
VERY lethal to balance this out a bit. TNE makes combat less lethal for
the PC's (if you play the rules as written) so you would expect it to
be a more combat-heavy background, and nobody has argued that isn't the
case. 
 One RPG had a whole chapter and set of stats devoted to character
interaction (NON combat) rules and that was the very bloody "Freedom
Fighters".. by J Andrew Keith (so it does have some connection to
Traveller...). There might be others. It's an interesting idea. I was
recently trying to work out a GURPS Space background where humans had 
no access to firearms at all- they were considered too violent to be
trusted. I gave up- players would hate it...

                              May your Fusion Guns never run out of ammo

                                               Anthony K.
                           (someone must have been telling lies about me)

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7054
Subject: 70:13/7039 Newpapers?
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 18:21:00 -0500

Subject: 70:13/7039 Newpapers?

T::>- - some more 'newspaper' adverts (one of these days I hope to have the spa
 ::>time to collate whats been sent. In the meantime they are still useful as
 ::>they are).

 Would you be willing to see "real news" from the same newspapers
 that provided the adverts?  I've written a few articles that have
 some possibilities toward creating scenaria.  They were written
 during MT, as were the adverts I sent you before, but there really
 isn't anything that would preclude their use in CT or TNE...  Let
 me know; if there's support for the idea, I'll post the "news."
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ I have an attitude and I know how to use it.

------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7055
From: john.bogan@asb.com
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 09:57:17 
Subject: "PATH" OVERVIEW


Here's an extended review of "Path of Tears", the RC sourcebook,
for those of you who are wondering if it's worth getting:

Price: $18 (US)
Length: 158 pages

Sections:

THE COALITION:
Pages 6-8 are mostly a reprint of the RC timeline, though some 
parts have been expanded and more detail added.

Pgs 9-11 list the original 12 ships sent out by the Dawn League,
with ship name, type, sceduled course, and fate to the extent known.

Pgs 12-13 are maps and UWP data for Aubaine (ex-Nicosia) and 
Oriflamme (ex-Sarid) subsectors.  Each world has two lines of 
UWP data, first the pre-Rebellion and then the New Era stats.
On the maps, the pop code and tech level have been added to the
traditional map symbols in order to reduce the need to refer back
to the code listing. [I've been doing this on my home-grown maps for 
years. It doesn't really clutter things much, and it really helps
having that information available at a glance]

14-15 is a breif description of each world within the RC
16-17 is an overview of the RC government, such as it is, as
well as a table listing each world, its population, political
bloc it belongs to, and number of representatives in the Assembly.

PEOPLE OF THE COALITION:

Pgs 18-19 breifly discusses the eight major political issues
within the Coalition, most of which are actually matters of
the internal structure of the Coalition, rather than matters
focusing primarily on the univers outside the RC.

Pgs 20-23 gives the "typical" views of persons from each of the 
RC's major worlds on the Coalition itself, the other member worlds,
and the aliens within the Coalition (the Schalli, native to Aubaine,
the Hivers, and the Ithklur).  The section preface _does_ emphasise
that even though these views are "typical" for each world, 
considerable diversity exists and the views are _not_ universal.

Pgs 24-27 detail the Schalli, an aquatic minor race native to
Aubaine.  One of the Challenge "swimsuit issues" featured 
a piece by Rob Caswell titled "First Contact" which showed
a human woman with an unidentified aquatic species.  That race
is the Schalli, and the woman is presumably the author of the 
"atmosphere" passage on page 24.  Templates and modifiers are
given for both NPC and player Schalli.

Pgs 28-29 is a glossary of RC jargon, about half of which appeared
in Survival Margin.

RCES OPERATIONS:

30-33 outlines RCES mission types, doctrines, and general tactics.
It includes a pretty absurd sidebar of the RCES studying the Soviet
invasion of Afghanistan as a "classic model of invasion planning
and execution." [I say "absurd" because surely, from the RC 
perspective, there are thousands of more recent examples of the same 
thing]

34-35 outlines the defensive (ground, wet, and COACC) forces oef the 
coalition, and their orginization.  Sidebars on RC rules of 
engagement and informality among ranks.

Pgs 36-38 list the ships available to the RC, with tables of ships
complemented by text explainations.  Incidentally, some errata from
Brilliant Lances is dealt with here.  In BL, the Aurora-class 
clippers were capable of jump-5 in some configurations, even though
their TL-12 design should have limited them to J-3.  Here it states
that SOME Auroras (the so-called "Group III" ships) used salvaged
TL 14 & 15 equipement to extend the Jump performance.

Pgs 39-43 deals with the economics of the RC and the Auction(s), both
in general terms and in player-level terms (their cut from the 
auction, etc.)

THE AO (AREA OF OPERATIONS):

Pgs 44-45 is an overview of RCES objcetives for the next 5+ years
(pretty ambitious. I _REALLY_ hope they have their timetable
extended due to circumstances beyond their control).

Pgs 46-49 are player maps of Promise (Diaspora L), Khulam 
(Diaspora P), Thoezennt (Old Expanses I), and Shenk (Old Expanses J)
subsectors, in the same format used for Aubaine & Oriflamme.  Outside 
of seven parsecs of the RC proper, however, only pre-Rebellion UWPs 
are available.

Pgs 50-87 gives maps and world data for 19 Wilds worlds.
[some of these worlds have appeared previously in FASA's old
HIGH PASSAGE magazine #5. I didn't notice any overt contradictions,
especially given the changes between the Imperial and New Eras]

REFEREE'S INFORMATION:

As indicated, Pg 88 starts the referee's section of the book.

Pgs 88-91 are general GM advice. Sidebar on the distinction between
Free Traders (the people, capitalized) and free traders (the ships,
lower case).

Pgs 92-97 are notes and rules on detailing worlds. Rules for 
determining the size and number of surface nations on balkanized
worlds, traits of governments (as opposed to types), types of
salvagable equipement, size and composition of military forces.
[I suspect much of this section will be reprinted and perhaps
expanded in the world-building book due out later this year]

Pgs 98-141 is Ref's data and notes for the subsectors and detailed
worlds.  Lots of adventure "nuggets" for a GM to expand upon.

Pgs 142-143  more notes on the Virus for a GM, with warnings
not to overdo it. Also, perhaps strangely enough, admonitions
not to treat Virus as a "disembodied intelligence" but to remember
it has to use things (cameras, sensors, etc.) to find out what
what the PC's are doing.

Pgs 144-145 introduces The Star Guild, a loose organization of
Free Traders in and around Diaspora.

pgs 146-153 gives stats on personal equipement and vehicles

154 details the Manta-class skimmers
155-157 reprints as well as expands the information on the
Aurora clippers from what was presented in BL.

Finally,
158 is an index, which, at first look, seems pretty complete.

IMHO, in terms of format at least, this is probably the best 
Traveller sourcebook published _ever_. (now if only they'll
do one on an area that interests me more than the RC :-)
It lacks any central adventure, which has been a feature
of Traveller campaign sourcebooks from The Traveller Adventure
up to Flaming Eye and Knightfall, but makes up for it in providing
details and nuggets for a wider selection of worlds.

The RCES still have a high emphasis on militaristic operations and
technology salvage, but there's more information for GM's to
create adventures that depend on more than the players' arsenal
and weapons skills.  Adventures dealing with intrigues WITHIN
the RC, heretofore suffering from an information blackout and
depending entirely on the GM to cook up everything, are now 
possible for GM's that won't/can't/don't have the time to do
EVERYTHING themselves.


It may not be worth the price for everybody, but it's
definitely worth a close look.


John H Bogan



------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7056
Subject: Some Campain stuff
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 94 21:03:38 PST
From: "James M. Kelleher" <kelleher@holonet.net>



Hello

I've been lurking around here for a while, rules bashing and nit-picking
are not all that inteesting it can sometimes help. My Campain is changing
to the T:TNE rules. As they seem to be better and more playable than MT.
Although We are not in the NEW ERA yet ( 1122 ). We are playing in the
interesting times leading to the Arrival Vengence and beyond.
I have been devloping some of the Sons, daughters, And grandkids of some
of my characters. We also have some idea of how the history to 1130 will
be in the Domain ( Regancy ). Two others of my players are also on here
so I wil have to be careful what I say here. We have thought a lot about
the Zhodani James Kundert is the most knowageable about them Catie and I
One of the things I have considered is that the Consulate is indeed larger 
than the Domain and there are some political hard-liners who want to absorb
the Domain, Some "Liberals" who want to become more economic pardners of 
the Domain partially because of the ecnomic doldrums after the 5th.
also they realize that to absorb a chunk of realestate like the Domain
whould be tough and hard on the consulate's econimy as well as the former
Imperials would fight to the last Sophant, in the middile are the moderats.
who want to see things stay the same. The Consulate is VERY conservative.
Some of the liberals are beginning to realize that there is a danger of 
stagnating. James ? I don't know if you agree, but I'd like to see it 
discussed.
The Vargar are an important force especally near the Corridor borders.
then there are the Aslan that situation is easy to straiten out Hire 
them to help with the Vargar problem. " If you have a lot of problems,
it is amazing how they will solve each other. " ( mis quote of Piper ).
There are some of the characters who are clostly involved in all of this
as two of them grew up close to Norris one and her husband where Countess
of Regina and as such she became one of Norris' closest advisors and most
trusted Admirals. One fo the others is a Baroness and one of the Richest
Woman in the sector she also is a chaired professor at the university of
Regina at the Kingsbury Campus ( History ). She is blind and has a hobby
that even her friends won't know about until she " dissapears " in 1125
She finds and kills Ine Givar terrorists. She is also a very strong and 
subitle Psi ( very under cover notice the subtile ;-) ).
These are the some of the people who in our history will go on the first 
combined Domain - Zhodani expidition into the core area. They had a vision
and " Saw " these people there.
So this is some of our set up. And some of the characters who will 
influence them.

The present Group:

Marcus: Ex scout, ships Captain, First pilot, He doesn't have very many 
        secrets, only his " Purple Colon " ( an accident with a hard 
        Naval Vacc suit. )

Astrid: Ships Purser, Beautiful, and into making money, Their present 
        Gig is the keys to the bank as far as she isconcerned.

Blasnie: Short Green Aiain? Ships engineer agood on although prone to 
         talking about shoveling hydrogen into the engins and practical
         jokes. He is very secrative about his past except when confronted
         by a doctor he calls them vivisectionsts and complains about his 
         buddy Ziplock. ( Anyone Recall Spaced Invaders? :-) )

"Doc Trank" He has a name but he is called that as he was prone to trank
            the original ships Captain ( Thats another story and as the 
            player lurks here, I can't tell it here ) ex army soemtimes 
            tweaks out.

Amelia Redrock: Engineer and second pilot ( she is a better pilot than 
                Marcus but she isn't saying anything ). She is a Raccoonid
                She doesn't have any strange secrets she just likes life.

Flak:        It's not his real name, The players had him figured out almost 
             immediatly, But the characters haven't although if he keeps 
             being under stress he will blow his cover. Ships Security. 
             He is a Zhodani Guards Tvarchedl' who had a mission into the 
             imperiam and is now doing research into the Imperial mindset. 
             He is unknown to him, known to INI. And his superiors and 
             Ini are talking.

Gunner Cade: Gunner was hired om to run the ship's guns and teach Astrid and
             Flak how to run them themselves. The Crew think he is a retired
             Marine Sargent. He is accualy a Brigider General and in INI NOT
             retired he is there to observe Flak ansd help him, sonetimes 
             it is hard to keep flak's cover...

Doug         Marine Frist Leuitenant still in the service he is the demolitions
             expert. He also is the other Marine's Bat man.

Maghs:      This is a nick name he is a Vagar who is on active service and  
            on loan from the 49th. he is another Brigader General. His Idea
            of covert seems to the others to be a little obivious he just 
            covered his rank insitnia. and they have accepted him as just
            a Gunbunny ( he is not...) He has soem more secrets but I can
            not discuss them here... He and Gunner have known each other for
            years...

            Well thats a capsule discription of the characters.
next time I can discuss some of the campain as I am takeing up to much 
band width. The Group, after the guest GM finishes our prsent op seems
to think that Disappering for a while would be a good idea. So they are 
thinking of going into Foreven Sector ( They don't realize that they are
taking a member of INI with them [ if he/they Survive]).

James I hope I haven't showed too much see ya Sunday. Talk to you soon.

Good Gaming.
jim

- -- 
Remember: no matter where you go...
There you are...
B. Banzi

James M. Kelleher
kelleher@holonet.net


------------------------------

Bundle: 561
Archive-Message-Number: 7057
From: muskrat500@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 01:13:55 EST
Subject: Submission

To all who are interested: While not dealing directly with Traveller, this
has some bearing on GDW's future course. It came across America OnLine
Monday.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Subj:  Re: Press Release                     94-03-21 21:46:13 EST
From:  GDW GAMES


For Immediate Release March 22 1994

Frank Chadwick, President, Game Designers' Workshop, Inc.

TSR Acquires Dangerous Journeys Game System

Bloomington Illinois -- A two year lawsuit involving the rights to the
Dangerous Journeys Multigenre roleplaying game recently came to a conclusion.
On March 18, TSR, Game Designers' Workshop (GDW), Omega Helios, Trigee
enterprises Corporation, and Gary Gygax jointly announced all rights to the
game system were acquired by TSR.

The specific terms of the settlement are undisclosed, but all parties are
satisfied with the amicable agreement. According to the parties, GDW will
cease distribution of Dangerous Journeys game products as of April 1, and TSR
will receive the remaining inventories.

The parties said the tremendous amount of time, money, and energy expended on
this lawsuit have left the gaming industry immeasurably poorer than it might
have been otherwise. However, the ability of the parties to negotiate a
mutually acceptable settlement allows the parties and the industry to
coalesce and move forward in positive and constructive directions with all
parties working together.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


    It doesn't take a computer called Deep Thought to see that GDW may be
able to focus even further on its flagship system now, though it's a shame to
see T$R's heavy-handed tactics win again. 
    Further thoughts or opinions?

    Muskrat500
    "Time is relative: Lunchtime doubly so"

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #562: Msgs 7058-7071 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Mar 27 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 22:00:03 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #562: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 562  7058 24-Mar-1994 A.S.Lilly@bnr.c  Everything under the Sun, PCs, etc. << 
 562  7059 24-Mar-1994 Joni M Virolain  moro << I'm new to the Traveller. I hav
 562  7060 24-Mar-1994 M.Archer         2300 << Sorry to be a pain but can anyo
 562  7061 24-Mar-1994 Brian Makens     Wild Geese or Chicken Farmer? << After 
 562  7062 24-Mar-1994 David Johnson    TNE Background 7 << Gentlesophonts:
 562  7063 24-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     CT Adventures for Sale... <<  
 562  7064 25-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  My Comments << To John Bogan (and undou
 562  7065 25-Mar-1994 TML Administrat  Re: 2300 list location << For the 2300A
 562  7066 25-Mar-1994 Mark Urbin       Guy's Gun shoots both ways.... <<   Tak
 562  7067 25-Mar-1994 usboa001@ibmmai  2300 AD List                           
 562  7068 26-Mar-1994 Grant Sinclair   Yiklerzdanzh << traveller@engrg.uwo.ca
 562  7069 26-Mar-1994 AFP123@BANGOR.A  LANGUAGE IN THE WILDS <<  A thought occ
 562  7070 26-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Moody's campaign... <<  
 562  7071 26-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     What do YOU need more of? <<  

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7058
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 11:10:46 GMT
Subject: Everything under the Sun, PCs, etc.

Hi all,

Summary of last few weeks of TML:

     #######                     ###########
 #############    ___   ___    ###############        
#####  _   _ \   | 3 | | 4 |   / _      #######
###     \ /   |  --Scoring--   \/         #####
##      o o   |  --by Seiko-   /o          ####
###       \   |               /             ###
##       ==   |               ==            ### 
 \       __   |                |__           ##
  \     |  | /     BLAH BLAH      |          |
   |    \_/ /      BLAH BLAH    _/           /
  /     ---                     \___        /
_/         \__                     |        |
              \                   /          \
       T  N E  \                 /T N  E      \
     R  U L ES |                |SU C K  S     |

Only joking - please don't bother to reply, I just happened to have a slow
day at work... :) :) :)

TNE?

I don't give a monkey's either way because I refuse to shell out my hard-
earned (?!) cash for TNE - when a friend gets it I'll copy any _bits_ I
find useful (possibly character generation and the use of d20s for combat,
etc.) but I don't want the complications of teaching my relatively new
group of players a new rules system AND background AND redetailing all the
equipment on their character sheets AND announcing that their beloved
characters are all 105 or older in this new game (probably 120+ since the
Rebellion hasn't yet happened in my universe)... etc.

And FF&S... well, I've not seen it (cash problem again). And I openly admit
that there's nothing I like more than designing the odd starship or robot.
But I don't want it any more complex than MT's rules - anything more and you
seem (guessing here) to need a computer program or a free weekend to generate
one ship and a new pistol (and you still can't build robots unless you've hung
on to the old CT, etc. stuff...)

BACKGROUNDS

Okay, TNE's got a new background. See my post earlier this week for why you
don't need a new background - CT or MT could provide every possible adventure
you ever dreamed of.

'SOFT' SKILLS

There's been some discussion about non-combat skills and increasing their
usage. I get my players rolling for skills such as Carousing, Liaison, Admin,
Interrogation, Broker, Legal, Trading, etc. almost every time they speak to
someone. Some people are born bright and come up with brilliant conversation
that means any NPC will reveal information to them. Some people are verbally-
challenged and have to rely purely upon these Traveller skills. Either way,
unless the player really knows what's going on (impossible in my games) he
may get an answer but still no understand its implications. Okay, so the
NPC said the Volcans would be in startown now. So what? I don't volunteer
information unless it would be naturally obvious, but if he says ok, what
does my character know, he gets a Trader roll. Ah, so the Volcans always turn
up at this time of year with huge shipments of semi-precious gems...
Isn't that what's sitting in our cargo hold?... So prices will fall, eh?
Time to sell (start rolling admin for the paperwork, Broker to find a suitable
buyer, Trader to get a good price...)

There's a use for all the skills, you just have to force your players to use
them... if you always tell them everything, then they won't bother.

Perhaps a trade with the Volcans? Anyone get Xenobiology or possibly Scout
survey skills? Ah, they particularly like orange-flavoured chocolate and the
scent of rose petals. Achmed, buy 10 kilos of rose petals and shove them in
the air filters. Pauline, shove the remaining petals down your blouse - oh,
sorry, flak jacket - and go invite the Volcans aboard. Janis - buy up every
bar of orange chocolate in the starport... Let's talk business...

COMBAT SKILLS

Combat IS dangerous. Okay, so the players are the heroes - they have to be
to have a chance of surviving. After all, take Predator, Terminator, Total
Recall, etc. There are good guys, bad guys and heroes. The bad guys gun down
the good guys and are, in turn, gunned down by the heroes. Unless the players
want to change characters regularly, there is no other way of running things.

As I've pointed out before, there's no reason why players should expose them-
selves to to much danger anyway. The majority of planets in the Imperium
seemed to have pretty high law levels anyway, so the majority of the time
guns shouldn't be involved.

Not that players shouldn't die! If Gumbo, unarmed and unarmoured, wants to
take on the gook with the SMG, use him as an example to the other players.
But even then you needn't kill him...

Janis dived into cover behind a parked vehicle, but Gumbo charged the man,
head down, roaring ferociously. The gook's eyes widened for a
fraction of a second and Janis tensed, waiting for the withering hail of fire
but instead there was just a short burst, scream and thump. She peeked out,
nervously, expecting lead death to meet her. But the gook was standing,
ignoring her, watching Janis writhing in agony at his feet. Blood spurted
from the man's lower leg and he clutched at the wound in a futile attempt to
staunch the bleeding.

The gook looked up, just smiled at Janis. He knew she had no gun, no armour.
The SMG wiggled, inviting her out of her hiding place. She acquiesced, having
nowhere to run to; walked slowly toward him, gauging the distances. Still some
metres away he signalled to her to lie down. She did so, sprawling at a
calculated angle. He would deal with her in a second, but for now he would
enjoy his victim's pain. The snub-nosed SMG rested against Gumbo's forehead...
but his eye was distracted by Janis' ample figure, exposed as she lay nearby.
The fool could wait - the SMG swung and knocked out Gumbo. Time for a little
enjoyment.

He lay the SMG down out of the woman's reach, pulled a knife from his belt and
held it ready in one hand. "Don't try anything, love, or it'll go badly for
you..." She whimpered, barely moved as he rolled her onto her back and spread
her legs apart from slow, deliberate movements.

The pain in his groin after her kick was as nothing to the whiteness which
exploded in his eyes when the dual knife-hand thrusts to his eyes and throat
drove him into unconsciousness. Janis rolled easily to her feet, pulled the
knife from his twitching hand and slit his throat.

Checking that there were no passersby, she picked up the SMG - that would
come in handy as she hadn't managed to smuggle any weapons onto the planet.
Gumbo groaned... she thought for a moment about leaving him, after all he'd
spent most of the previous week saying how her unarmed combat skill would
never help her - she should rely on his handgun expertise and concentrate on
cooking, etc. on the ship...

Oh, what the Hell, she decided and helped the barely conscious grunt to his
feet. No point calling the cops, perhaps a private hospital would deal with
his wound without asking too many questions... given sufficient cash...
She dropped Gumbo unceremoniously floor and turned back to the corpse. Good,
a full wallet...

 ... OK, so some referees might just make the bad guy panic fire at Gumbo then
roll a couple of grenades at Janis. Does this ever happen to Harrison Ford,
John Wayne or Arnold Schwarzenegger? Nope, the bad guy would always fall for
the meek beautiful woman approach, guaranteed, every time (that's why all
my players have Charisma as an attribute after Social Standing; "God, he's a
handsome man!" "Yeh, but he eats like a Vargr and washes once a year..."

IF all your players want to do is heft weapons, then they should be
Mercenaries - and that doesn't tend to be a long-term career. If they want to
develop their characters then they need to learn the 'soft' skills [and you,
the referee need to make sure they thave the reason, and opportunity to use
them].

Time to stop warbling...

Andy Lilly

Commander, PITS Team (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
"We are never out-gunned..."
Nothing I say or do here in anyway reflects the views of my very kind,
understanding and generally wonderful employers

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7059
From: Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
Subject: moro
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 14:07:54 +0200 (EET)

I'm new to the Traveller. I have run TNE only a few times but I have followed
Traveller material from the Challenge where I scrounged new ideas for my  own
game. I have to say that I respect the Imperial history, in fact I'd like to
know even more so I could use it in my RC campaign.

If anybody haven't answered to you already about Regency, RC(ES), Star Vikings
terms, here it comes. Regency is in Deneb and beyond, RC (Reformation Coalition)
is in Old Expanses sector. RCES is RC's exploratory service. Star Vikings
are those relatively independent people who work for themselves and/or for
RC. Comprende?

In fact although I criticized TNE's background a bit I don't mean that I don't
*like* the setting. It is true that it allows PCs to interact with their
surroundings the way that affects whole RC and known universe! I remember
that someone had the Universal Universe Profile (or something like that) idea
here in tml, in that TNE has greater number than CT/MT in which indicates 
how much PCs can alterate their universe. I'd like to hear more about UUP.

At first I thought that TNE is Twilight:2000 goes Traveller, but it is true
that TNE has more optimistic attitude that T2000. I can't wait to get my 
greedy fingers to that Path of Tears, it sounds like a good product for me.

Someone said that it takes lots of time to gather that much army to control
large area. It is true if you are talking about unsettled area, but in the
Wilds there is lots of people and when a planet joins RC it adds it's own
army to the RC's whole army.

And if Rodge would like to continue his journal/novel about that adventure
I'd be very happy, I think it was great.

I have to admit that I like more about that background discuss than that
rules vs. reality when it comes to things that are relevant in TLs over our
own (i.e. ftl ships). But I'd prefer the kind of discussion which helps to
better one's campaign and give new ideas of adventure because as someone said
Traveller = ADVENTURE, I second that!

- ------------
Joni Virolainen
jonimv@evitech.fi
                         So far, so good...
                         so what!
                         -Megadeth


------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7060
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 12:51 GMT
From: cs4118@scitsc.wlv.ac.uk (M.Archer)
Subject: 2300

Sorry to be a pain but can anyone tell me where the 2300 list is cheers

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7061
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 15:09:56 -0800
From: bjm@dsc.com (Brian Makens)
Subject: Wild Geese or Chicken Farmer?


After reading Path of Tears, one thought that hit me
was..gee what a new environment for mercs but....

With all the tech 3-10 carnage taking place and all
this balkanized worlds shooting it out. A fella in
a Tech 10 or 11 Merc outfit could make quite a living
out there selling his unit's service to various TED's
and other parties. Except, of course, that due to the
lack of space transport, that after the little shoot-em up,
the merc is going to be stuck on that dirtball world
as a chicken farmer. Which come to think of it, due
to the lack of Intersteller Govt support currency,
is probably what he is going to be paid off in.

Hmm, getting killed for filthy lucre is one thing,
getting killed for filthy chickens and pigs is
another.

Basically, is GDW going to fix this TNE universe up,
so that Mercs can make an honest living in the Wilds,
or are all those good strikers gonna have to emigrate
to the FASA battletech universe for employment<sounds
of upchucking, heaving, and wimpering in the background>?

How about this Merchant Guild, providing the transportation,
sponsoring, bond guaranteeing that the merc business needs
to live. I can't imagine Merc'ing going over too well in the
goody two shoes RCES dominated areas.   

"Let me get this straight, your gonna help reestablish
civilization by having the RCES transport you to some planet
where some TED is going to pay for your tech 11 Meson Gun
services in trashing the opposition.....<thud clunk chung pop
the air lock opens and closes and your merc adventures comes to an end>

On the other hand some of those oriflammie marines, seem to
have the right attitude for a Merc.

			Brian J. Makens 	bjm@dsc.com
			Digital Sound Corporation
			Carpinteria, Ca


				


------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7062
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 15:26:50 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TNE Background 7

Gentlesophonts:

Well, first I need to clarify some `timeline' difficulties with my last
few messages.  For some reason my "TNE Background 4" (TML Msg 7032)
appeared *after* my "TNE Background 5" (TML Msg 7033) in Tuesday night's
postings.  And I messed up my posting in the second group of messages from
Tuesday.  TML Msg 7044 was also called "TNE Background 5" but should have
been "TNE Background 6".  Sorry for the confusion.

I at least have given up the comparison of TNE background to CT/MT in favor
of examining TNE since TNE, as a *fait accompli*, is all that's being 
supportedby GDW.  So far, the discussion has centered on the Star Vikings
of the Reformation Coalition since, apparently, that's the only aspect
of TNE background that's been presented by GDW in any detail so far.

I'd still like to examine other aspects of TNE (and CT/MT and non-Imperium
background too) but I guess this is going to be dependent on those of you
who are brave enough to venture beyond the GDW scope.

For now, let's look at the Star Vikings.
 
bjm@dsc.com (Brian Makens) writes:
 
> The political structure and currents of the RC are
> quite well described as well as RC motivation.

How so?  An important aspect of Beam's original Space Vikings was that they
were highly individualistic and had a great deal of difficulty cooperating.
Much like the Vargr of Traveller, the Space Vikings were often fighting
among themselves.  This situation permitted some to be `blood thirsty
barbarians' while others were more sympathetic explorers and developers.
(This situation was well preserved, almost to a fault, among the Sword Worlds
of the Spinward Marches BTW.)  In the novel, there was *no* Space Viking
political entity larger than a single planet and many Space Vikings operated
from balkanized worlds.

Does the political structure of the RC permit this?  Or is it a much more
cohesive and organized group?  The idea of an Exploration Service suggests
a greater degree of uniformity than was the case with the petty barons of
Beam's Sword Worlds.

Another interesting aspect of the novel was that some Sword Worlds detractors
of the Space Vikings saw them as a threat because they drew the best talent
and resources of the Sword Worlds away from home and into the `wilds' of the
Old Empire.  The view was even expressed that Space Viking settlers in the
Old Empire might be raiding the Sword Worlds themselves in a generation or
two.

> 	   Some of the these worlds, don't make sense. Worlds
> 	   have "data priests" that are in the tech 5-9 eras.
> 	   Given that we are talking 20th Century technology,
> 	   it takes a rather sophisticated population to support
> 	   such a technology(just take a good look around you).
> 	   A population that can support tech 5-9 just doesn't
> 	   seem the type to go in for supersitious data priests.

This is a *very* good point - especially considering the fact that grand
parents on these worlds remember days of *much* more advance technology.
Consider 20th Century Westerners in the developing world today.  They might
not be able to repair a laptop computer while exploring in Antarctica, feeding
the starving in East Africa, or building irrigation systems in Central America,
but they *certainly* aren't going to *worship* the darned thing!

 
>         5. TED model seems to be too simplistic for the worlds

etc.,

> 	   no outsider is going to tell us what to do), the
> 	   TED gets stronger and stays in power for a record
> 	   length of time(i.e stronger state apparatus than
> 	   apparent and force of nationalism than TED model
> 	   implies).

Not exactly.  I doubt the Space Vikings are going to draw a line at the
atmosphere and wait for `permission' from the UN to cross it.  I also
doubt the folks back home are the sort to start calling for the `boys'
to be brought home as soon as some of them catch some flak.
And BTW, what's a `TED'?  (I'm guessing T-something E-something Dictator?)

 
Allen Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

> I'm running two concurrent campaigns with the New Era rules; one set in the
> Reformation Coalition circa 1201,

Great.  So what's going on?  Your players, I assume, are RC explorers?  And
they're not chicken stealing?  What's your take on the organization of the
RC government and the issues I raised above?

>  and the other set in the old Imperium
> circa 1106. In fact, I'm running the "Secrets of the Ancients" series (Adv 2
> "Research Station Gamma", Adv. 3 "Twilight's peak" and Adv 12 "Secrets of the
> Ancients", for the newbies)

I'm surprised to learn this after your ardent support for TNE.  :-)

>    Oh, and by the way; I am definitely ALLEN Shock.

Thanks for the clarification.

>    Oh, and one more thing, while I have taken it upon myself to defend TNE
> from it's detractors, I have both CT and MT, and still run CT from time to
> time (like this Thursday night). Traveller in all  it's forms is far above
> anything else.

Hey, some common ground!  Great!
 

John H Bogan <john.bogan@asb.com> writes:

> If the RCES saw themselves as the heirs to the legacy of the
> Imperial (spit on ground) scout service, would they view the
> Wilds as "diseased", to be cured with "star-hot plasma, RAM
> grenades, and coherent light"?

Clearly there's some room for different interpretations of the role of the
Space Vikings - which isn't necessarily bad.  As has already been pointed out
previously, one of the strengths of Traveller has always been the lack of
clear distinctions between `good' and `evil' in Traveller - simple examples
being both the Zhodani and the Solomani.  An important issue though is going
to be the degree to which whatever attitude is predominant in the RC is
monolithic in it's support or not.  The more monolithic the attitude the
less chance there will be for both `good' vikings and `bad' vikings.

> That may be fine for you, but that's not true for everyone.
> I know the people I game with, and even if I don't care how
> the maneuver drives work, eventually the players are going
> to try something that will MAKE me care about it.

This is true, but as a referee I've always felt that consistency is more 
important that adherence to any rules.  If the PCs discover some clever way
of dealing with a situation then the NPCs are just as likely to have found
a clever counter.  (Unless of course, you allow PCs access to *player*
knowledge, which can again be countered by allowing NPCs access to *ref*
knowledge!)  The point is *none* of us *really* knows how the maneuver drive
works (and much of the rest of the technology as well, especially the *jump*
drive).  Some folks are really into this sort of `imagineering' and that's
fine, but it's not the sort of game I had in mind when I started this
discussion about background.

This discussion was started with a deliberate attempt to avoid rules-related
issues.  I know we've seen where rules might influence the background but in
general I believe a good ref can avoid any major problems if her intention is
to stay true to background rather than rules and he still maintains consistency.

I suspect we'll get a lot of discussion now about the Reformation Coalition.
What about the rest of the TNE universe?  Who's adventuring in other places?

And I'm still waiting to hear from folks that are still adventuring in the
Old Imperium campaign or who have gone on to even `bigger and better' settings.

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7063
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 1994 22:42:21 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: CT Adventures for Sale...

 
 
I have the following CT adventures for sale:
 
Adventure  1 -- The Kinunir       (set in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Marc W. Miller
 
    The Kinunir Colonial Cruiser has been lost for decades, and
    you've just found it.  It's got a black globe generator, it's
    intelligent, and it's stark raving mad!
 
Adventure  2 -- Research Station Gamma   (set in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Marc W. Miller
 
    Help an alien in distress save his family from the evil
    tortures of a mad scientist and his robot minions.
 
Adventure  3 -- Twilight's Peak   (set in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Marc W. Miller
 
    The ships crashed out there somewhere, and the supplies they
    carried were worth millions.  But is the legend true?  Did
    the El Cadiz task force really find a cavern of fantastic
    technological wonders, or was the story just the rantings of
    a stir crazy scout?  The legend is decades old.  Can your
    players pick up the trail?  An excellent adventure by the
    master himself, with rumors and encounters world-by-world,
    and finally, appearances by Zhodani spies, and the Ancients.
 
Adventure  4 -- Leviathan         (starts in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Bob McWilliams and Games Workshop, Ltd.
 
    Adventure with the Leviathan Class Freighter into the Outrim
    Void.  Includes complete deckplans for the large vessel, and
    subsector maps and background of the portion of Trojan Reach
    Sector just rimward of the Spinward Marches.
 
Adventure  5 -- Trillion Credit Squadron     (set in Reft Sector)
 
    By Marc W. Miller and John Harshman
 
    Interstellar war in Reft Sector.  Two or more players build
    their fleets according to an allocated budget, and then try
    to blow each other away!  Detailed rules and commentary on
    the design of space squadrons and the strategies of
    interstellar war in the Traveller universe.  Requires use of
    Highguard.
 
Adventure  6 -- Expedition to Zhodane  (set in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Marc W. Miller
 
    Venture across the border of the Zhodani Consolate on a
    special mission with a special technology only you possess,
    to rescue an Imperial spy held captive by the psionic elite.
    But don't tell your players this!
 
Adventure  9 -- Nomads of the World-Ocean (set in the Solomani Rim)
 
    By J. Andrew Keith and William H. Keith, Jr.
 
    The Seaharvester Corporation is hunting the huge daghadasi to
    extinction.  Their factory ships are eating their way through
    the oceans, threatening the planet's entire ecosystem.  Who
    will stop them?  Exotic lifeforms, techno-nomads, factory
    ships, hunterfoils -- an interesting adventure.
 
Adventure 10 -- Safari Ship         (set in the Spinward Marches)
 
    By Marc W. Miller
 
    Hunt exotic and elusive game aboard an Animal Class Safari
    Ship (deckplans included).  What do you do when one of your
    prey talks back to you?  Who hired us for this mission,
    anyways?
 
Adventure 11 -- Murder on Arcturus Station     (Solomani Rim)
 
    By J. Andrew Keith
 
    A murder mystery in deep space.  With a multitude of
    suspects, and plenty of motives to choose from.  Can your
    players solve the crime and catch the murderer before they
    become the next victims?
 
Let me know if anything on this list interests you.
 
        Sincerely,
        Roger Sanger
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7064
Date:         Fri, 25 Mar 94 01:42:05 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      My Comments

To John Bogan (and undoubtably others):
    I apologize for the tone of my comments in that message you quoted. It's
just that if I came on here saying "Classic Traveller Bites" (which it most
emphatically does NOT) every three posts, people would be annoyed. I get very
annoyed at the continual griping about TNE. Yes, the background has some areas
where science goes out the window. And I realize that, unlike myself, there
are people who care about these things. I guess I will just have to accept
that the TML is going to continue to be filled with this complaining for some
time to come. And yes, I WOULD like to see GDW correct some of these errors.
I have the feeling that as long as people keep coming off with the "you idiots
screwed up" attitude, they won't. Human pride is a funny thing. Mine led to a
more emphatic post than I probably should have written. Sorry.
   I had a great time running CT tonight, by the way. One thing which I do
agree with the anti-TNE crowd on is that the systems in TNE are more "wargamey"
than the original. I try to simplify things where possible, and put a CT-like
emphasis on the scenarios I run. I WILL say that my opinions regarding the
Reformation Coalition were fomulated from reading the very same material in the
TNE rulebook and Survival Margin that you referred to. Proof, I guess, that two
people can read the same work and see it two very different ways.
    I'm going to bow out of the TNE vs. CT wars at this point, because I enjoy
them both.
             Allen (and it definitley IS Allen...) Shock

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7065
Subject: Re: 2300 list location
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 10:07:53 PST


For the 2300AD interest group/list, write Pedro A C Tavares:

	ftavares@ptearn.fc.ul.pt

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7066
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 13:21:33 -0500
From: mju@ftp.com (Mark Urbin)
Subject: Guy's Gun shoots both ways....


  Take a closer look at that Crunch Gun (a.k.a Guy's Gun) and the Panda light
tank.  A sniper can penatrate the armor, except the front, using ball ammo
out to 1200 meters.  Use the DS ammo and you can score crew hits, through
the front armor, from over a kilometer distant.

  The Free Traders can keep brush fire wars going this way.  Why?  It's good
for business.  You sell to one side, your partner sells to the other.

  FT Bob sells Panda's to TED Zeke cause Zeke has more valuable stuff to 
trade.  FT Charlie sells Guy's Guns to Rebel Leader Yolanda for stuff RL
Yolanda steals from TED Zeke.  FT Bob and FT Charlie meet up later, count
the loot and have a good laugh over their beers.

  Of course the FT's don't want the RCES coming in. Not only do they want
to spoil such little profit centers, but the next thing you know...
Ya got port fees, export tarifs, import bans, fuel taxes...ugh!

  Given the limited RCES resources, the *last* thing they want to do is get
involved directly in a Planatary war.  They may have TL 12 stuff and the
zips got TL5 or 6, but the zips got lot's of their stuff.  The RCES have
to haul their stuff up a gravity well, through jump space and then down
a gravity well.  What do you call a grounded starship?  How about an
artillery target.... There is a reason why policy calls for decapitation
raids.  It's cheaper, faster and doesn't suck resources like a [insert
favorite methaphor].


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin - mju@ftp.com - FTP Software, Inc. - Opinions are mine!
Vikings?  There ain't no vikings here.  Just us honest farmers. The town was 
burning, the villagers were dead.  They didn't need those sheep anyway.  
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7067
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 21:32:09 EST
From: usboa001@ibmmail.COM
Subject: 2300 AD List                                                     

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1057280--IBMMAIL  Traveller Mailing

From:  Dennis L. O'Brien
       Consulting Systems Engineer
       VM Systems Software 5863             (510) 675-5594
Subject: 2300 AD List

>For 2300 AD, contact Pedro A C Tavares at...
    I sent a note to Pedro Tavares about 1.5 weeks ago, and haven't heard back.
Perhaps the net lost it, or he's on vacation.

                                       Dennis
 *
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares may one day find
    themselves under the yoke of those who kept their swords.

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7068
From: Grant Sinclair <grant@cleese.apana.org.au>
Subject: Yiklerzdanzh
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 14:39:06 -40962758 (CST)

traveller@engrg.uwo.ca
Someone asked recently whether anyone was adventuring spinward of the
Spinward Marches.
 
HIWG Australia has been developing Yiklerzdanzh sector (the one
immediately spinward of Far Frontiers) for the last couple of years.  We
are hoping to get the various bits of work of the individual developers
drawn together over the next couple of months, with the result being
distributed in some form after that.  At this stage, it is expected that
adventures will follow.
 
We were hoping to have had things done by now, but drawing all the work
together, and getting missing bits filled in, is taking longer than we
wanted.  In computing, there is a saying that goes something like "The
first 90% of the project takes the first 90% of the time, and the last 10%
of the project takes the other 90% of the time". (I know there are
variations).  The saying appears to be true in the 58th century as well!
 
Also, has anyone noticed that type A Free Traders come with fuel
purification plants, now?  I have been having some correspondence on 
this.
 
This may well be different in the Empire of Deneb, but otherwise, this
is quite significant.  There is less reason to buy refined fuel, since
you can just buy unrefined for a fifth of the cost, and purify it while
waiting for your cargo to arrive.  If the world has water/ice
available, you don't even need to buy unrefined fuel.  It will also
mean that gas giants will be less useful, since it takes so much
longer to get there with the new drives (and time is money when
you are a merchant) and it is much longer and more dangerous to
refuel that way than ocenas/ice anyway.  Pirates will correspondingly find
lurking in gas giants less profitable (and more ships will be jumping-0
past them anyway, than in the past).

Since the trading rules seem to be otherwise unchanged from MegaTraveller,
characters will now be making much more money per jump than in the past.

I have doubts whether refined fuel being quintuple normal price is worth
while anyway.  I can imagine players using their own plant to purify fuel
for other people (they have several days waiting for cargo after all) and
making a mint.  The starport may not like the competition, though!

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Grant Sinclair                  "Cream rises to the top...
grant@cleese.apana.org.au        but so does scum..."
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7069
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 12:59 GMT
From: AFP123@BANGOR.AC.UK
Subject: LANGUAGE IN THE WILDS


	A thought occurred to me the other day. How widespread is the
use of standard GalAnglic throughout what was the Imperium? I always got
the impression from CT that GalAnglic was a trade language as much as
anything and that many planets had their own languages - especially those
that were settled by Solmani of non-Anglophone extraction or Vilani.

	With the collapse of interstellar society as we know it, the 
reason for many people to know GalAnglic will disappear. The Syleans will
carry on speaking Sylean, Vilani will carry on with Vilani and the
Solomani worlds will carry on with a modern version of their old language,
be it Russian, Chinese, Swahili or whatever.

	Seventy years of not hearing from other planets will also do odd
things to those planets that did speak GalAnglic. Dialects will appear, 
and may become mutally incomprehensible. Think of all the differences
between American, Australian and British versions of English. They've
all cropped up while we've remained in contact with each other.

	Perhaps a good analogy can be drawn with the local situation here
in Wales. The fair county of Gwynedd has a population the majority of which
first language and the local culture thrives, having TV, radio, newspapers
and films in Welsh. (Incidentally, if you can, get to see the film Hedd
Wyn,  recently nominated for Best Foreign Film at the Oscars. It has no
sci-fi content at all but is a damn good film. Good for cultural detail
for those who appreciate such things). Anyway, I digress. The point is
that if Gwynedd were an island, it would have no need to speak English,
all the mod-cons of civilisation are provided in Welsh. However, they do
need to communicate with:

a)	The government in London which doesn't speak Welsh;
b)	The world at large which doesn't speak Welsh;
c)	People like me who have moved in and (as yet) don't speak Welsh.

	Thus I tend to hear more English spoken than Welsh since in town
it gets used as a Lingua Franca. Out in the mountains things are a little
different.

	If England were suddenly removed from Wales (i.e. instellar trade went), then the majority of people would probably get on with their lives - but now
have no need of English. The local TV and radio are in Welsh, the schools
teach using Welsh. English would die out, and fairly quickly too. People
like me would have to learn or become a small ghetto-ized community.

	I would say that this sort of thing would have happened all over
the wilds. Most of those planets will have at least a dialect that is strange, and most of them a completely different language to that which the players speak. 

	" I see. Can anyone hear speak GalHispanic? No? Bugger!"

	Well that's all folks,
		Pnhawn Da,
			Stewart Johnson.

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7070
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 05:55:11 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Moody's campaign...

 
 
This message is in response to S_DMOODY's posting about his
campaign (Bun556 msg#7000)...
 
                        -----------------
                        Player Attendance
                        -----------------
 
I noticed that you stop play just because one player can't show
up.
 
I've found two ways to get around this problem:
 
    1)  Convert the PC into an NPC in the player's absence.  Why
    let the absence of one spoil the fun of everyone else?  I
    find that this policy, stated in advance, works well in
    keeping the game going.  An absent player can give you
    general guidelines to follow in running his character, or he
    can turn his character over to someone he trusts.  One of the
    players in my campaign routinely goes into deep freeze and
    becomes his ship's frozen watch.  They've only thawed him out
    twice in emergency situations, and once they wouldn't thaw
    him out even when the player was there!
 
    2)  Have many branches (or "time-lines"), with many player
    combos to choose from.
 
I use #1 above for EPIC adventures or for my MAIN branch.  If you
are running the Traveller Adventure, or the adventure series that
runs from issue #1 to issue #21 of The Travellers' Digest, this
is what I would recommend.  Or if you have an ongoing branch with
fanatic player participation, then give your Traveller addicts
what they need.  There's nothing worse than a great adventure
that everone wants to play that just stands still.
 
The rest of the time, I use #2 above.  My campaign currently has
around 20 branches, any of which can be revived as circumstances
and player availability warrant.  Because there is a lot of combo
duplication, the branch is often chosen based on the mood
everyone is in, whether it be for bug hunting, piracy, twilight
zoning/dark sci-fi'ing, solving mysteries, combatting, rescuing,
treasure hunting, exploring, trading, or just plain high
adventuring.
 
 
                     Moody's Marauders
                     -----------------
 
I like the characters you posted, and the food-fight in public
idea.  Sounds like a great way to introduce these characters.
They're first in line on my special encounters list, and I will
spring them on my players at my earliest opportunity, though I'm
not sure yet what to do with the Zhodani spy ring plot.  I'll
keep you posted.
 
Thanks!
 
By the way, what happened to the characters on Wednesday?  And
what do I tell my players if they ask why that woman has been in
deep freeze so long?
 
 
                    May your travels be filled with wonder.
 
                    Rodge.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 562
Archive-Message-Number: 7071
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 05:58:37 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: What do YOU need more of?

 
 
                               What does
 
 
 .             TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT   M           M    L
 .                    T          MM         MM    L
 .                    T          M M       M M    L
 .                    T          M  M     M  M    L
 .                    T          M   M   M   M    L
 .                    T          M    M M    M    L
 .                    T          M     M     M    LLLLLLLLLLLL
 
 
                               Mean to you?
 
 
 
 
I have a comment or two about the purpose and potential value of
the TML.
 
As I see it, the TML has 3 major uses:
 
        1)  Commentary/debate         (on rules, background, etc.)
 
        2)  General correspondance                ("Hi everyone!")
 
        3)  Swapping material for game/campaign use    (see below)
 
 
For what it's worth, my opinion is that even though #1 may help
to get the kinks out, and #2 may help to keep informed and to
track things down, #3 is the most valuable, because you can
actually use it in your gaming sessions -- the primary purpose of
RPGs is the GAMING EXPERIENCE ITSELF.
 
I see the TML as a Traveller material stockpile.  Over the life
of the TML, a lot of material (#3) has been deposited here (get a
load of the vehicles collection on sunbane!) between Traveller
refs -- BUT NOT LATELY.
 
Lately, almost all of the postings fall into category #1 and #2
above.
 
IF YOU'RE A TRAVELLER REF LIKE ME, THEN MY GUESS IS THAT YOU HAVE
SOME OF, BUT NEED A LOT MORE OF THE FOLLOWING:
 
    Local settings
        Developed worlds
        Cities
        Towns
        Buildings/places to go  (stores, shops, offices, restaurants,
                    factories, museums, libraries, parks, etc.)
        Starports
        Stations/facilities
        Ancient Sites
        Wilderness areas
 
    Scenarios/adventures
 
    Encounters/events
        NPC's
        Ship encounters, complete with context
        Patron encounters
        Special events / situations
        Special encounters
        News items
 
    Aliens
 
    Cultures
 
    Organizations
        Governments
        Companies
        SIGs
        Associations
        Orders (of Knights, etc.)
        Etc.
 
    Robots
 
    Equipment and technologies
 
    Deckplans, maps, and floorplans.
 
    Flora/fauna
 
    (did I leave anything out?)
 
 
With 40+ referees with active campaigns frequenting this list
(see Derek's campaign survey posted a couple months ago), the
opportunity is ripe for some serious swapping.  If we all submit
the little custom material we have each developed, it will add up
to one HUGE collection of campaign material.
 
You can expect some NPC's from me within the week.
 
        I'm looking forward to comparing material,
 
        Rodge
 

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #563: Msgs 7072-7081 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 30 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #563: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 563  7072 26-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     They came from beyond (#2) <<  
 563  7073 26-Mar-1994 psualum@aol.com  Help one of our own <<  The following n
 563  7074 26-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  RE: TNE Background #7 << >What's your t
 563  7075 26-Mar-1994 Dane Johnson     Re: TNE Background 7... << First of all
 563  7076 26-Mar-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     Local Scandal Sheet << Subject: Local S
 563  7077 27-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  MYTHUS lawsuit << As I'm sure many of y
 563  7078 27-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  Computer Multipliers << I posted this t
 563  7079 27-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 1 << Gentlesophont
 563  7080 27-Mar-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     The TNE Alien? << Subject: The TNE Alie
 563  7081 27-Mar-1994 Rodney W. Morri  Star Plotting <<  This isn't extremely 

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7072
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 06:02:50 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: They came from beyond (#2)

 
 
(...continued from TML BUN577 msg#7007)
 
 
 
 
 
                  ---------------------
                  THEY CAME FROM BEYOND
                        episode 2
                  ---------------------
 
It looked human.  And it acted human, at least until its cover
was blown and it was supposed to die.  Then it became an enraged
shrieking monster.  Now it was just standing there staring at
him, green ooze flowing down the front of its jumpsuit from the
many bullet wounds in its chest.  Baraka tried to wipe the tears
out of his eyes so he could see.
 
It should have been dead.  Baraka had unloaded an entire clip of
personnel-stoppers from his light but powerful ppz24 body pistol.
Those were special rounds designed to split into 4 pieces upon
impact, and to swivel off in 4 different directions when inside
the target, inflicting multiple internal injuries to the hapless
victim.  They usually dropped your opponent, unless he was lucky
enough to be wearing body armor.
 
It should have been dead.  It stepped forward toward Baraka,
whose back was pressed tightly up against the door.  It left a
puddle of thick green fluid soaking into the carpet where it had
stood.  Baraka's body surged with adrenaline, his heart pounding
so hard he thought it would burst.  His head darted back and
forth, looking for an alternative to dying.
 
It should have been dead.  Yet it spoke, it's raspy monotone
direct and to the point.  "Baaraaaka."  The voice had a very
strange but soothing quality to it.  Yes, there was something
about that voice, something Baraka couldn't quite put his finger
on.  Something about the way the tonal qualities blended, so
intriguing, so...
 
Baraka was distracted from his distraction by the pain in his
fingers.  He noticed that he was gripping his weapon so hard his
knuckles were turning white.  His arms were as tense as steel,
and he was pointing the empty body pistol in futility at the
approaching monster.  "NO!"  he yelled, standing still not an
instant longer, and dashed for the other end of the sofa.
 
"Baaraaaka", it toned again.  It began to walk around the couch
toward him.   Baraka could no longer think in words, his animal
instincts had taken over.  He just wanted OUT!  When the predator
was almost upon him, he ran along the backside of the couch,
making a mad dash for the control console.  He flipped the master
door switch with his forefinger and pressed the door button with
his thumb in almost a single gesture, and turned to go for the
now opening exit.
 
The alien had already moved to intercept and was blocking the
way.  There it was, death incarnate, standing in the middle of
his living room, with freedom in sight just beyond it but so
hopelessly far away.  In that moment, Baraka's gut-wrenching fear
of the evil thing turned to intense hatred.
 
"HEEEEELP!"  Baraka roared at the top of his lungs.  A thin smile
came to his face as he watched the alien at an impasse.  The
message was out.  If it moved on him, he'd make a run for it.  If
it just stood there, help would eventually arrive.  Baraka felt
victorious.
 
The man who wasn't a man turned around, walked to the door, and
pressed down on the panel switch next to it.  Lying not far away
on the floor, was the other alien, whisps of steam rising from
the bloody corpse.  As the door began to close, Baraka held
down the button on the control console, and the door slid open
again.  The living alien turned around, its blood the same color
as that from the body on the floor.  Its face was contorted, its
mouth opened inhumanly wide, as if it were about to scream again.
 
The adrenalin surged again, and Baraka felt the urge to flee
consume him.  His head darted wildly around.  Baraka noticed his
bedroom door was still open.  He shoved off of the control
console with all his might and rushed to his room.  The alien
pursued, the apartment's front door closing behind it, and it
bellowed its soul-searing wail once again as it hunted Baraka
down.  The human was trapped.
 
Baraka hit the inside door switch as he ran into the bedroom, and
the door slid closed just as the screaching monster slammed into
it.  He whirled around to see that he was alone.  He could hear
the dull thunking of his deadly pursuer pounding on the panel
switch outside.  But it didn't matter.  He had pressed "privacy."
Now the thing had to go to the flat's master control console
before it could get in. Shaking almost uncontrollably, Baraka
backed away from the door, and made his way to the wall vent
where he always kept his body pistol.
 
The pounding stopped, but he could still hear the screaching
outside, although somewhat muffled.  It was already on its way to
the console.  Baraka frantically reached into the already open
vent and around the duct's first corner, and pulled out an extra
clip of ammo for his weapon.  It fell to the floor.  He dropped
to his knees, releasing the catch on the pistol he still gripped,
which held the empty clip in place as he fell to the floor. He
scrambled in a panic to retrieve the loaded clip as the door
began to open and the mind scream became infinitely louder.  He
could hear the thing thumping rapidly across the floor.
 
"Down to the wire!  Down to the wire!"  Baraka yelled, but with
much more ferocity than he ever did at the kluupa track, as he
struggled to coordinate his bony fingers well enough to get the
ammo into the damn gun!  As the screaming terror flew into the
room, its furious blazing green gaze meeting his the instant it
turned the corner, Baraka finally slammed the clip into place,
and involuntarily screamed as he raised the gun into the face of
the demon descending down upon him and fired away as fast as he
could pull the trigger.
 
The trusty weapon silently punched several holes into the alien's
human face, and the wailing stopped.
 
Baraka just laid there for a moment with the dead heap on top of
him.  A few moments later, as his heartbeat started to slow down,
he pushed the corspe partly off and yelled, "What the hell is
going on!"  Where the hell did Big Eddy get thugs like these?!
He had met quite a few aliens over the years, but he had never
ever heard of anything like these before.  He tried to push the
large man-like body off of himself, but he was so weakened by his
ordeal that he finally twisted over onto his hands and knees and
crawled out from under the thing.   He smiled, but then went into
convulsive fits of crying.  The tears streamed down his face.  He
was alive, it was dead, and he could barely control his bodily
functions.  It took him several minutes to get to his feet.  He
finally rose, staggered to the fresher, and looked into the
mirror.  He was all splattered in green.  He started to wash his
face, and a few seconds later he felt noxious.  He puked his guts
out until there was nothing left inside him.
 
After he had regained composure, Baraka sniffed loudly, and
finished washing his face.  He returned to his bedroom and
noticed that the skin of the creature he had killed minutes
earlier had turned somewhat green and was starting to peal off of
its face.  He nudged the corpse with his foot.  It felt rather
mushy under the jump suit.
 
Baraka felt the urge to vomit again.  He couldn't, so, with a
scowl on his face, he retrieved a fresh jumpsuit from his closet
and changed clothes.  He gathered a few possessions, including a
combination filter/air compressor mask, a breifcase containing
Cr60,000, and of course, his ppz24.  Then he left.
 
As he made for the front door, he passed the corpse in the living
room.  The skin had completely dissolved away, and what was
beneath it was becoming a big puddle of green ooze.  He slammed
the panel switch next to the door, and walked swiftly down the
hall toward the elevators.  As he passed the flats of all the
neighbors he had never met, he screamed "Next time, to hell with
sound-proof apartments!"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
To be continued...
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7073
From: psualum@aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 10:52:42 EST
Subject: Help one of our own

 The following notice appeared in the March 1994 issue of TSR's DRAGON
Magazine.  The message, I feel, appeals to all gamers and I therefore have
posted the appeal to the TML.


     On December 7, 1993, a gunman killed six people and wounded 20 more on a
  Long Island Railroad commuter train.  One of the wounded is 26-year-old
  Kevin McCarthy, a long-time gamer.  Kevin was shot in the head, and at the
  time of this writing, the left side of his body remains paralyzed.  His
  father, Dennis, was killed in the shooting.
     A fund has been set up to help Kevin and his family meet their mounting
  medical expenses.  His friends, and the staff od DRAGON Magazine, ask all
  fellow gamers for assistance.  Please send any donations to: The Kevin
  McCarthy Fund, 593 Nancy Road, Minneola, NY 11501.  Let's pull together for
  one of our own.


Peter B. Juzyk             "The soul is in the software."

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7074
Date:         Sat, 26 Mar 94 10:46:57 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      RE: TNE Background #7

>What's your take on the organization of the RC government and the issues I
raised above?
  The RC is governed by a representative democracy, with representation based
on population (although all planets are guaranteed one vote). There are many
sub-factions, but the two most powerful are the Centrist bloc, who are in favor
of a strong central government based on the Feudal Technocracy model, and the
Federalists, who are in favor of a looser organization which allows worlds to
develop their own social systems. In all, the RC is a fairly organized
governmental entity (at least for a relatively new government), It doesn't
sound at all to me like the "Space Vikings" of H. Beam Piper fame. (By the way
what's the name of that book? I'd like to read it.)
  The RCES is an organized (although again loosely) group similar to the old
Imperial INterstellar Scout Service in some ways. It has four major functions
according to PATH OF TEARS, pages 30-31:
   DISCOVERY: Basic exploration and information-gathering. The Discovery
Mission Statement reads "Identify and locate key resources neccesary to
establish interstellar commerce." This is performed in two ways. Missions
codenamed "Stardust" are purely scientific missions, such as initial surveys
of systems or unihabited worlds. Missions codenamed "Moonshadow" are missions
of covert contact with intelligent inhabitants of a world for intelligence
gathering purposes.
   RECOVERY: "Secure and preserve those assets currently in the Wilds
neccesary to the establishment of interstellar commerce." These also come in
two brands: Cold Recovery missions, where the tech is abandoned or sentient
resistance is not expected, and Hot Recovery, where those who have the tech
want to keep it. All missions against TED's (Technologically Elevated
Dictatorships) fall into this category. These are the missions commonly known
as "Smash and Grab" missions.
    INTEGRATION: Actual integration of inhabited worlds into the RC. Quoting
from the book, "Diplomacy is the preferred means of integrating a world into
the Coalition". When the people like the government, and it treats them well,
the RC tags the planet TDO (Trade and Diplomacy Only), no SAG's allowed.
A Charismatic Dictator who was loved by his people and benevolent toward them
would not be overthrown.
    A second type of Integration method is Pacification. Only two worlds have
been integrated this way, but there will undoubtably be more. INteresting to
note that the Third IMperium (and the two preceding) engaged in this practice
as well. It's almost neccesary; allowing pockets of resistance within your
space would make as much sense as allowing Missouri to be an independant nation
in the middle of the US, especially if they were hostile. Admittedly, this is
distasteful (as I'm sure it is to many within the RC) and I intend to stay
away from this kind of thing.
     REGENERATION is the final step; helping the worlds to rebuild their
technological base and reestablishing interstellar commerce. This is, as the
book points out, the major goal of the RC. Two operations are used here;
Commerce with Free Traders and RC merchants, and Bootstrap operations, where
the members function much as Peace Corps members do, helping the people relearn
the technology they need.

   I'll post later about our specific campaign activities; this post is long
enough :)
          Allen

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7075
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 13:06:06 -0800
From: Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: TNE Background 7...


First of all, let me take this opportunity to thank David Johnson (a fellow
member of the prestigious 'djohnson e-mail address club') for 'organizing' the
general thrust of discussion...You, sir, are an excellent moderator!

On to other things...

1.  _Path of Tears_ ... This book has made me, in some ways, re-evaluate
the role that GDW sees for the RCES in the future.  In many ways (to me)
it strongly resembles the tone I've seen developing over on the TNE
Pocket Empire mailing list.  That tone is one of empire building and the
forging of an interstellar government out of a group of loosely
cooperating worlds who face unknown dangers at their borders.

All well and good.  In many ways GDW should be proud of this sourcebook.
Again, to re-iterate, it would have made a fine 'beyond the frontier'
sourcebook.

Specifics of the setting:  The Reformation Coalition consists of a
handful of worlds, each self-governed, who have a sort of loose
parliamentary government to handle 'interstellar' details.  I haven't
read the sourcebook closely yet, but the feeling I get is very similar
to that of reading about the 13 colonies in and around the time of the
American Revolution.

Clearly, Traveller: The Fourth Imperium is the logical 'next edition' of
Traveller.  Whether that will be in the form of the RC and the Regency
combining or what, I dunno.

2.  What's going on outside the RC?
	This is a fundamental problem with the way in which GDW is
choosing to support TNE.  The release of the Rulebook saw many shaking
their heads in disgust over the (rather spotty) ethics and modus
operandi of the RCES.  The release of _Path of Tears_ modifies at least
my impressions of them pretty heavily simply because I now have a
clearer picture.  My point?  I needed the Cr18 sourcebook to get an
accurate picture -- What was in the Rules was insufficient (at least for
me).  The Regency is the same way (as are the regions once held by the
Solomani, K'kree, Aslan, and Vargr (mostly)) -- Until the sourcebook
comes out we won't know who Avery was, etc.
	Of course, in many ways, this is a basic marketing ploy on the
part of GDW, and a not-unfamiliar one -- To 'accurately' follow the TNE
continuity will require several 'interlocking' sourcebooks so that we
can see the whole picture.  Unfortunately, for those of us unhappy with
the region of focus at the moment, we are forced to develop our own
information in the almost certain knowledge that our carefully
rationalized explanations will probably not jibe with later published
materials.

	My general disgust with TNE would have been almost entirely
assuaged if GDW had chosen to remove all of the "New Era" specific data
from the TNE rulebook, a la the old 'Basic Traveller'.  Rules and
Background can, in most cases, be safely divorced from one another,
especially in a game like Traveller where Background issues affect
people's enjoyment of the game.  Having only had the 'core rules' in one
place and 'background details' in another would have permitted me (at
least) to have developed a more accurate picture of the background GDW
was painting while enabling me to completely develop my own settings
without having to worry about weeding out the influences of the TNE
campaign specifics (I'm here refering to the disparity of UWP gov't
codes for TEDs in the wilds <Oh, yeah TED = Technologically Elevated
Dictator> and the increased Crew requirements for ships in TNE due to
anti-virus measures).

3.  What I'm planning on doing, in terms of background, is the
development of an Imperial setting away from the standard area but
during the Imperial era.  I've picked Rim Reach as the perfect target --
Close enough to K'kree, Hiver and Aslan space to justify their presence
on the one hand, and removed enough to not have to worry about published
stuff ever impacting me.  Also, I'm going to put a Rosette system left
by the Ancients with a minor Human race on one world, a minor Vargr race
on another and some Droyne on a third.  This lets me get all the major
races in one spot, and I can say that, during the long night, the natives
of the Rosette system were contacted by some of those footloose Solomani
traders/exiles (a la Sword Worlds/Darrians) so that they now have jump
drive and their own hi-tech, politically stable 'pocket empire'.

4.  The revelation of what exactly is behind the Black Curtain is going
to turn out to be on the same order as the revelation in _The Secret of
the Ancients_.  :/


Dane

djohnson@willamette.edu   dane@halcyon.edu

TNS Stringer ------ Terra/Solomani Rim (1827 G867975-8)
"My opinions are those of my fuzz-brained, cat-sniffing Norwegian Elkhound."


------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7076
Subject: Local Scandal Sheet
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 21:31:00 -0500

Subject: Local Scandal Sheet

  The following is the text of three stories that are in the local
  "starport rag" on the planet that my campaign is currently 
  visiting.  All of these are designed to be lead-ins to possible 
  adventures.  More to come...
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Liner Damaged Near Jump Point
    SKYSIDE - The Blaine Starlanes passenger liner Kleoptra was 
  towed back into port early this morning after being struck by an 
  object of unknown origin late yesterday as she approached the 
  outbound jump point.  The impact caused damage to the thruster 
  plates of the Kleoptra, and Captain Yelena Gaashurika advised 
  Skyside that she was aborting the jump, and requested assistance 
  in returning to port for repairs.  Neither Captain Gaashurika nor 
  any of her crew were available for comment.
    A spokesperson for Blaine Starlanes stated that "as per Blaine 
  Starlanes policy, all passengers will be accommodated at Skyside 
  at company expense until either repairs are completed, or a 
  replacement ship arrives.  Passengers wishing to transfer their 
  reservations to other carriers will be able to do so through the 
  Blaine Starlanes Skyside ticketing agent, at no additional cost 
  to them."
    Space Guard rescue teams have indicated that no traces of the 
  object have yet been found, but that examination of the damage 
  continues.  They have also requested that all Blaine Starlanes 
  vessels undergo sensor evaluation, but have refused further 
  comment at this time.

  Religious Riots in Bitra Kill 50 
    AVRIL, BITRA - A series of riots here over the past week have 
  resulted in the deaths of 50 religious fanatics.  The riots 
  started as a result of the destruction of the Joramite shrine 
  here by members of the Shudiri faith.  Police in Avril have been 
  ineffective in quelling the riots, and the mayor has asked the 
  Bitran Council of Suffetes to send in PDF troops to assist.  The 
  council is expeced to act on the request by 240-1129, and the 
  request is widely expected to be granted, accompanied by a 
  declaration of martial law and the imposition o a dusk-to-dawn 
  curfew.
    The Council of Suffetes has issued a strong condemnation 
  of the riots, noting that tolerance for all religions is 
  explicitly written into the Bitran Charter.  The riots have 
  resulted in the drestruction of some Cr25,000,000 to homes and 
  business, and losses due to looting are estimated at an 
  additional Cr2,000,000.
    The riots are viewed as a major blow to the reelection hopes of 
  the incumbent Liberal Democratic members of the Bitran delegation 
  to the planetary Assembly.  The Liberal Democrats ran on a 
  platform of "law and order - but with tolerance" in response to a 
  series of highly charged demonstrations just prior to the last 
  election, three years ago.  Since that time, religious and 
  political strife has continued, but has been kept under control.  

  Ista Down to Close
    ISTA DOWNPORT, ISTA - At a press conference earlier today, the 
  Starport Authority issued a statement stating that because of 
  the recent volcanic eruption and resultant ashfall on Ista 
  Island, effective 30 days from today, Ista Downport will be 
  permanently closed to all air, grav, and space vehicles with 
  displacements greater than 50 tons.  Ista down handles 15% of all 
  incoming space traffic for the planet, but the closure is not 
  expected to cause problems with shipping, as both Fort and Igen 
  Downports are operating below capacity.  It is expected that crew 
  displaced by the closure will be relocated to one of the other 
  starports.  Local travel into and out of Ista is not expected to 
  be affected, as the craft used for this purpose are almost 
  universally below the 50t limit.

  Nerat Plague Contained
    HALF-CIRCLE, NERAT - Health Service officials announced today 
  that the spread of the unknown plague in Nerat is considered to 
  be checked, but that the area is still under quarantine.  In the 
  past week, the number of reported new cases of the disease fell 
  to only 400, as compared to 650 the week before.  All of the 
  reported new cases are in the southern part of the peninsula, 
  where the disease was first reported.  The quarantine area is 
  designated as being all of Nerat peninsula south of Half-Circle 
  Seaport.  Half-Circle Seaport is not included in the quarantine 
  area.
    Travel into or out of the quarantine area is banned, except for 
  delivery of food and medical supplies, and medical personnel 
  engaged in plague-connected work.  The Department of Immigration 
  is cooperating with the Health Service to provide an examination 
  checkpoint at Nerat Plains Travel Center to prevent infected 
  individuals from leaving the quarantine area.  All other travel 
  between Nerat regional travel centers and Benden and Igen has 
  been suspended until further notice, and COACC, the PDF, and the 
  Coastal Patrol are turning back any unauthorized vehicles that 
  attempt to enter or leave the quarantine zone.
    The Health Service has refused to comment on speculations as to 
  the origin of the disease or progress toward a cure, except to 
  say that research is continuing.

==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ # XXXX * I *TRIED* to register it!


------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7077
Date:         Sun, 27 Mar 94 13:53:44 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      MYTHUS lawsuit

As I'm sure many of you know, the lawsuit between TSR, GDW and E.Gary Gygax
has been settled. The strong runor is that TSR basically bought out DJ from
GDW. While I'm sure that the cash received won't begin to cover the losses that
GDW has taken, perhaps this will clear the decks for more supplements for the
existing GDW games...maybe even for TRAVELLER? Like, maybe, they could put out
a sourcebook for the Regency THIS year instead of NEXT?
                               Hopefully,
                                  Allen

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7078
Date:         Sun, 27 Mar 94 13:58:24 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Computer Multipliers

I posted this to the GDW-Beta list yesterday, so I thought I'd try it out here.
I would be ESPECIALLY interested in a comment from Frank, Dave or Loren on this
as I am running an "Old Era" game with the new rules and this would be a BIG
help. And helping customers makes them want to buy more GDW stuff :) (Shameless
I know; appealing to greed like that...)
   Here is an idea on how to make crew complements of ships smaller, more like
the good old days of integrated computer systems. (DO NOT try this in the New
Era!) The Control Multipliers given for computers control how many crew are
needed for certain positions such as Engineering. We found, via experimentation
with High Guard, Brilliant Lances and a goat (OK, forget the goat) that of you
SQUARE the CM, you get crew numbers much closer to the CT versions. We were
actually trying to build a version of the Aurora Class Clipper for High Guard
(we were bored) when we discovered that the TNE version required 26 Engineers,
the High Guard version required 9, and if you squared the CM for a Tl 12
computer and plugged into into the formula for figuring required engineers, it
came out as 9. We tried this with the Azhanti High Lightning design that was
posted here (the one that requires over 2,000 crew!) and it seemed to work well
EXCEPT for gunners. So...
       RULES QUESTION:
   Can you put more than one weapon through an MFD, automate the turret rather
than have a physical gunner there, and call it a BATTERY? (This might be
something to consider for BATTLE RIDER...) If so, you could easily reduce the
gunners on the AHL back to the level given in ARRIVAL VENGEANCE, thus meaning
you don't have to conscript entire small worlds just to crew your ship.

   Some of you amatueur ship engineers here should try this out and see how it
works. If it DOES works it will be a help to those who wish to use the new
rules in the old setting. If it DOESN'T...well, I'm not a mathemetician.

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7079
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 14:42:46 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 1

Gentlesophonts:

Great!  We've begun to move on to the details of TNE background *and* have
begun to explore aspects of other background settings.

From Saturday night:

Grant Sinclair <grant@cleese.apana.org.au> writes:
  
> HIWG Australia has been developing Yiklerzdanzh sector (the one
> immediately spinward of Far Frontiers) for the last couple of years.

I look forward to seeing this work.  How will it be distributed?

The idea of group development is also an interesting one.  How were
individual development tasks divided up?  I'm especially interested in
how you `patched up the missing parts'?
  
 
Stewart Johnson <AFP123@BANGOR.AC.UK> writes:
 
> 	A thought occurred to me the other day. How widespread is the
> use of standard GalAnglic throughout what was the Imperium?

My take was that *most* Imperial citizens spoke Galanglic - if not as their
birth tongue then as a `good' second language.  Good modern examples might
be Hispanics in the US or the Japanese - both groups that speak English as
a second language but for very different reasons.  This would be true on 
almost all worlds that were regular participants in Imperial society - say
Early Stellar tech levels and higher.  Less-advanced and backwater worlds
would have more divergent languages although here also those who interact
regularly with off-worlders would speak Galanglic.

IMHO, language skills have often been neglected in science fiction as a whole.
(Mostly because viewers or readers often only understand English).  The
*Star Trek* movies, with English sub-titles for Klingon and Vulcan, were
excellent exceptions, especially considering that *Star Trek* has been a 
`flagrant violator' in this respect.

The key with language in the post-Imperial era (PIE? As in `in-the-sky'?)
:-) is going to be who needs to learn the other's language.  Star Vikings
on Discovery, Integration and Regeneration missions will learn to speak the
local lingo while those on Recovery mission probably won't bother.  Folks
who want to interact with the RC, the Free Traders or the Regency will
learn whatever dialect of Galanglic that these various folks speak.  Certainly
by the time the Reformation Coalition meets the Regency they will have about
as much of a chance of understanding each other as an Australian sheep farmer
and a Mississippi moonshiner (or a New Delhi businesswoman and a Quebecois
hydroelectric engineer).
 
 
Allen Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

>   The RC is governed by a representative democracy,

Who is represented?  In other words, who gets to vote?  Adults only?  Women
only?  Residents only?  What establishes residency?  (If I immigrate from the
Wilds two days before an election can I vote?)  Do individual worlds make
these decisions?  (And are the requirement for voting different from those
for serving in the government?)

> the Centrist bloc, who are in favor
> of a strong central government based on the Feudal Technocracy model

Hmmm, I always thougt a feudal model was very decentralized.  In a feudal
system each baron's authority is based upon the support of her vassals.  This
tends to keep power from being concentrated in a central authority.  A `feudal'
system was what Alexander the Great and King Arthur had to destroy in order
to become the monarch (literally `single ruler').  GDW alway got this wrong.
Lucan would have *never* been able to cow the Moot in a true feudal aristocracy.
(The Imperium was not a `technocracy' because noble patents were not based
upon technical or economic abilities.  GDW didn't get this part of Piper's
Sword World's right either.)

> Federalists, who are in favor of a looser organization which allows worlds to
> develop their own social systems.

Okay, like the Revolutionary American Federalists.  Since the government is
described as `representative' I assume neither the Centrists nor Federalists
believe in aristocracy?  Democracy, or some form of voting at least, is the
way to govern.  One wonders where these `progressive' attitudes come from
(hasn't it been suggested that the Regency is more `democratic' as well?) in
the ruins of a millenia of aristocracy?  Democratic traditions just don't
spring up over night, or even in seventy years, after that sort of history -
look at the former Soviet Union.  (How long has it been since the Magna
Charta?)  And the post-Imperial states haven't had a big democracy offering
financial incentives to make the move to democracy either.  Only in the mind(?)
of GDW . . . .

> In all, the RC is a fairly organized
> governmental entity (at least for a relatively new government),

Okay, which means the Star Vikings are either all `bad' or all `good'
depending on how you see the RCES defining it's role.  There won't be much
variation in the ranks.

> "Space Vikings" of H. Beam Piper fame. (By the way
> what's the name of that book? I'd like to read it.)

It's *Space Viking*, but it, and probably most of Beam's `Future History'
novels and anthologies are probably out of print.  Try the used paperback
stores.  They're all great reads.

> according to PATH OF TEARS, pages 30-31:
>    DISCOVERY: Basic exploration and information-gathering. The Discovery
> Mission Statement reads "Identify and locate key resources neccesary to
> establish interstellar commerce."
>    RECOVERY: "Secure and preserve those assets currently in the Wilds
> neccesary to the establishment of interstellar commerce."

Aren't *markets* the fundamental `necessity of interstellar commerce'?
Doesn't this sort of preclude `chicken stealing' of any sort?  (Whether I
call it `identification', `location', `preservation' or whatever?)  Wasn't
the collapse of *markets* (and access to them), in GDW's own words, what
led to the collapse of the Imperium during the Rebellion rather than a lack
of resources?  (Do they ever read what they put out after it hits the stores?)

> Hot Recovery, where those who have the tech
> want to keep it. All missions against TED's (Technologically Elevated
> Dictatorships) fall into this category.

Okay, so `good' Vikings only hit TEDs while `bad' Vikings will take it from
you regardless.  Who makes this TED determination anyway?  The RCES?  That's
sort of like the 1950s CIA looking for commies isn't it?

>     INTEGRATION: Actual integration of inhabited worlds into the RC. Quoting
> from the book, "Diplomacy is the preferred means of integrating a world into
> the Coalition". When the people like the government, and it treats them well,
> the RC tags the planet TDO (Trade and Diplomacy Only), no SAG's allowed.

So this is the United Federation of Planets!  :-)  (Join Starfleet!  Tour the
galaxy!  Meet interesting aliens!  And sleep with them!  :-)

>     A second type of Integration method is Pacification. Only two worlds have
> been integrated this way, but there will undoubtably be more.

And this is the US in Somalia (only RC citizens give a damn about folks who
aren't just like them and aren't squeemish in the face of casualties)?  Or is
this the Soviets in Afghanistan, which the RCES uses as a training guide?  With
a relatively stable, centralized government in the RC this `good vik' - `bad
vik' issue will have to be resolved.

>      REGENERATION is the final step; helping the worlds to rebuild their
> technological base and reestablishing interstellar commerce. This is, as the
> book points out, the major goal of the RC. Two operations are used here;
> Commerce with Free Traders and RC merchants, 

Is this sort of like letting Exxon or Alcoa come into your country to help
you develop?  (Or William Penn buying Manhattan for a handfull of beads?)
Doesn't sound too benevolent to me.

> and Bootstrap operations, where
> the members function much as Peace Corps members do, helping the people
> relearn
> the technology they need.

Now this sounds benevolent but this has to come from altrusim - the RC won't
recognize any benefit (other than spiritual) from this sort of behavior for
decades.  My question is: do the TNE rules spend as much time explaining
irrigation network as they do explaning armor piercing rounds?

Some really important issues need to be decided here for the RC but there
seems to be a lot of potential too.


Dane Johnson <dane@halcyon.com> writes:

Some too kind words about me.  Thank you, but talk about a waste of bandwidth!
:-)

> it strongly resembles the tone I've seen developing over on the TNE
> Pocket Empire mailing list.

How do I get on that list?

>  That tone is one of empire building and the
> forging of an interstellar government out of a group of loosely
> cooperating worlds who face unknown dangers at their borders.

Maybe, but empire buliding is seldom very altruistic and often very bloody.
It seems to me there's a fundamental conflict in the goals of the RC.  Is GDW
trying to make the RC everything to everyone?  Should they?  And more
importantly, can they?  Is there the potential for a split between empire-
builders and altruisitc-developers?  It seems the internal structure of the
RC is more important to the Centrists, Federalists, and other blocs than are
these fundamental issues of how the RC will interact with the rest of the
world.
 
> Whether that will be in the form of the RC and the Regency
> combining or what, I dunno.

You can bet that by the time the RC meets the Regency each will have its
own interests which will most likely be in conflict.  Those who have
`rebuilt from scratch' won't have any interest in turning over what they've
wrought to those who stood by `holding the torch'.  Now there's an interesting
conflict!  (And d**n, now I've gone and broadcast it to everyone!)

> 	Of course, in many ways, this is a basic marketing ploy on the
> part of GDW, and a not-unfamiliar one

'Nuff said.
 
> if GDW had chosen to remove all of the "New Era" specific data
> from the TNE rulebook

But who would have bought what would then have been basically just a reprinting
of the Twilight/C&D rules?

> Background can, in most cases, be safely divorced from one another,
> especially in a game like Traveller where Background issues affect
> people's enjoyment of the game.

Yes, but knowing Travellers, who would then have just bought the rules?
This is the one thing that GDW is *very* good at.  They know their customers
and how to get into their pockets.
 
> 3.  What I'm planning on doing, in terms of background, is the
> development of an Imperial setting away from the standard area but
> during the Imperial era.

Great!  Look forward to reading more about it.

So, some good stuff on the RC and a beginning of some `alternate' Imperium
campaigns.  More, more!  And who's adventuring in the Regency?  What's going
on there?  Or do we have to wait for the sourcebook?  What about completely
original campaigns - don't have to wait for a sourcebook for those?

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7080
Subject: The TNE Alien?
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 15:19:00 -0500

Subject: The TNE Alien?

  One of my biggest complaints about Traveller, from Yom Echad
  (Hebrew: The First Day - the "ch" is gutteral) is that, for the 
  most part, Aliens were semi-cardboard cutouts.  The Imperium was 
  populated mostly by twentieth-century Terran Humans, mostly North 
  Americans from the United States and Canada.  The Zhodani were 
  the Evil Telepathic Dictators from Beyond the Rift, the Aslan 
  were the Honorable Samurai Warriors, the Vargr were the Inept 
  Anarchistic Pirates of Space, and the Solomani were the Evil 
  Communist/Racist Menace.  And any minor races we ever saw (the 
  Bwabs/Newts, the Virushi, etc.) didn't even get that much.  We 
  never really got a good look at their culture(s), or their point 
  of view of Interstellar History.  DGP's Megatraveller Alien 
  series was something of a step in the right direction, but not 
  enough, and the Third Coming killed the series after it was 
  barely begun.  What I'd like to see is a set of Alien 
  Sourcebooks, one per race, not smaller than Hard Times or Path of 
  Tears.  (What I'd really like is for each race to get as much 
  info as is in the TNE Rules, but let's at least pay lip service 
  to being realistic.)  This, incidentally, should include as many 
  of the Minor Races as possible.  I'd accept Minor Races at two 
  per book, rather than just one, but I want that information.  I 
  want my players to be able to run Zhodani characters in 
  character, and to be able to adventure in the Zhodani Consulate.  
  I want them to be able to be Aslan in the vanguard of the 
  reconquest and recolonization of the Rimward portions of the 
  former Aslan Hierate.  I want them to face the problems of being 
  seven or eight feet tall, half again as long, and weighing 
  upwards of half a tonne, on a ship built around _human_ 
  dimensions, and _human_ needs.  I want them to see, as a Newt 
  would, how and why the ship's purser's attempts to bribe the 
  clerk are so extremely offensive, or why even the patience of a 
  Virushi could be exhausted after breaking yet another excessively 
  fragile human medscanner.  Most of all, I want them to realize 
  that there are a _lot_ of people in Known Space who are Different 
  From Them, but who are no more Alien than they themselves are.

  <knocking on glass of monitor> Loren?  Are you folks listening?
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ I want to live forever. . .so far, so good.


------------------------------

Bundle: 563
Archive-Message-Number: 7081
From: csc3rwm@cabell.vcu.edu (Rodney W. Morris)
Subject: Star Plotting
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 22:40:42 EST

	This isn't extremely Traveller-related, but I plan on
uploading the program to a few traveller ftp sites when I'm
finished, so...

	I need help with matrices.  I'm working on a program, using
VisBasic for Windows, that can, given the real-universe location of
a planet, plot out its location.  This I've gotten, however, I'd
like to incorporate movement and planetary details.  I've gotten a
few books on computer graphics and understand the basics of matrix
algebra, but I need to figure out how to translate matrices into
code.  Any help would be most appreciated.  Please contact me
privately, as this isn't really list-specific.

	Lucifer >:} csc3rwm@cabell.vcu.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #564: Msgs 7082-7096 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 30 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #564: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 564  7082 27-Mar-1994 George Herbert   TNE-Pocket moderator's awake again, a l
 564  7083 27-Mar-1994 RJR96326@vax1.u  Response to RCES 'n' stuff (late at nig
 564  7084 28-Mar-1994 keystring@aol.c  ADVENTURER FOR HIRE <<      ADVENTURER 
 564  7085 28-Mar-1994 psualum@aol.com  More background ranting <<  I apologize
 564  7086 28-Mar-1994 James Dening     Stewart Johnson, Languages, most things
 564  7087 28-Mar-1994 Peter H. Brento  What I want from TML << One quick comme
 564  7088 28-Mar-1994 James T Perkins  Ship design & deckplans << Peter H. Bre
 564  7089 28-Mar-1994 James Dening     ftpmail << BTW, travellypeeps,
 564  7090 29-Mar-1994 Roger Myhre      Computer multiplier       << From: "Sus
 564  7091 28-Mar-1994 Caffine Achieve  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7081-7090 V70#20 
 564  7092 28-Mar-1994 Dave 'Philios'   TNE Starship Architect *ALERT* << Well,
 564  7093 29-Mar-1994 Goldman of Chao  cross reference? << I'm beginning to cr
 564  7094 29-Mar-1994 James T Perkins  Languages, dialects, and counter cultur
 564  7095 29-Mar-1994 "Susan M. Shock  Have your Imperium and Virus too! << I 
 564  7096 29-Mar-1994 Derek Wildstar   TNE-Pocket << In Msg#7082 (Bun#564), Ge

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7082
Subject: TNE-Pocket moderator's awake again, a little
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 19:44:13 -0800
From: George Herbert <gwh@crl.com>


Well, if I'm not the moderator, at least I supposedly handle subscription
stuff for the TNE-Pocket mailing list.  Anyway, on to the topic...

I changed jobs 4 months ago, and have had 3.5 months of solid serious overtime
in which I have done almost no list maintenance.  I remembered one person
who'd sent in a change-subscription-address request a month (?) ago, which
I just fixed (Mark Urbin: your world.std.com account is now the one
it's sent to 8-).  Anyone else, I have a horrible mess in my traveller
related mailbox, send me a new request if you wanted on or off or something
changed.  

For those who haven't seen previous discussions, TNE-Pocket is developing
a couple of subsectors of Reavers Deep sector as a set of Pocket Empires
for TNE, which GDW approved.  The current status of when we can publish
the stuff is up in the air, which Guy Garnett could (should? 8-) send an
update about, but it is approved by Dave Nielsen @ gdw.

- -george william herbert
gwh@crl.com  "In my copious spare time"

 .

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7083
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 22:39:33 -0600 (CST)
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu
Subject: Response to RCES 'n' stuff (late at night)

I accidentally deleted both the mail and the extract, so no quotes on this
reply. . .

Language:
	I agree that in many settings, not just science fiction, language
skills have been ignored. In sci-fi it most players would sooner carry around
smart translators (a step or two up from the electonic language dictionaries
of today). Of course, in a Virus campaign, they might not rely on such computer
enhancement. I don't believe in "universal translators" that can learn a 
language with just a few minutes of exposure, but translators that have a
database of existing languages to translate are, IMHO, wholly plausible.
	Introducing language to your campaign can also help you bring the
"cultural advantages" Jeff Zeitlin was looking for. If all your NPCs sound
the same, they'll all seem the same. If you can come up with accents or
other speech patterns common to a given race's rendition of Galangic, you'll
find the players remember that they *are* different from the other hominids
in the Galaxy.

Government:
	I don't own TNE stuff at all, and to be honest have never actually
*played* a Traveller campaign, so I can't comment on the RCES. However, I 
think a feudal technocracy can be either strong or decentralized, depending
on just how much authority the chief monarch asks for and is ceded. An example
would be the back&forth of State's Rights in the US, showing that at times
a rep. democracy can have either a strong central government, or a weak one.
A strong leader makes for a cetral power; a weak one allows his vassals to
do as they please.

Lucan *could* have cowed the Moot, if he had the backing. If Lucan had a great
deal of military power, whether formal or informal, or had a vast spy ring,
or simply controlled many resources, or was friends with many Moot families. . .
any of these factors could have made the members of the Moot look favorably
upon him - or at least enough that the Moot could not agree on action, leaving
a power vacuum which Lucan, through sheer force or will, was able to fill.

Examples would include many of the great dictators: Caesar, Napolean, and
Hitler. All of these men were able to seize power, usually legally, even 
though the were intimidating the people who gave them power. Civilization
isn't much different from street life: people with the backing will take
power. All the fancy laguage and sharp threads are just dressing.

Good vs. Bad
	As has been pointed out before, the cool thing about Traveller (and
many GDW adventures) is that there aren't really good guys and bad guys.
The Solomani, for instance, are agressive and often racist in their politics - 
but they also colonized and dominated most of space after defeating their 
rivals, who had them outclassed in numbers and technology.
	Anyway, the "Space Vikings" seem to be in a similar situation. On the
one hand, yes, they are using force to reclaim technology from other people - 
sort of deciding that if anyone's going to have it, they should - a philosophy
that makes sense in a strict "national interest" approach to foreign affairs,
which is likely to happen in the post-Virus world. However, you cannot deny
their success, and like it or not, they *are* bringing order to their patch
of space - 200 years down the road, many of the conquered planets will be 
*happy* to be RCES members, especially if it gives them access to tech from
dozens or even hundreds of worlds that would not have come together without
the RCES.

Of course, there's always Quebec :)

Democracy from the ashes:
	I don't think a representative democracy is too unreasonable, even if
the Imperium was an autocratic-feudal organization. Let me adapt something I
got from (I think) FASA's Battletech (blechh, I know):
	In a society as large as the Imperium, and with the travel time 
between worlds, sectors, and so on, it could conceivably become more effective
to have an autocrat in charge of government, at some level. I imagine that
in a more enlightened society that such a government would be a representative
monarchy - much like the British model circa the 17th or 18th centuries. In
other words, there is a parliament with legislative duties and the ability
to override the monarch - but the monarch is still in charge. Depending on 
the support of the people, the monarch may have great power, or be as weak
as the modern Royal Family.
	After the Virus, there would be many strong leaders, I'm sure - but
after a time the "tribes" they lead would realize they had more to gain
by joing together, forming a - what's that wored? ahhh, COALITION! They would
then be democratic for a time, at least until they controlled an area (say, the
size of Norris's old stomping ground) too large to govern by commitee, at which
point a strong leader could step in and establish a new line.

Gunging Ho to Market:
	Yes, markets are needed for commerce; but when the RCES says "secure
& preserve" that means make sure they're friendly to the RCES. Just because
you're out to re-establish order doesn't mean you won't look out for #1.
	The collapse of markets may have come about during the collapse, but
I'm sure 70 years is enough time for *new* markets to develop.
	As for Exxon and Alco coming in. . .the analogy may be valid. Better
yet, the Penn/Beads deal. AS history has shown, they have their good and
bad sides. :)
	Bootstrap: The RC *will* benefit in the long run, having new trade
partners that aren't directly controlled by the RCES. Sort of like the US
Peace Corps jobs.


Well, that's enough for now. I'm babbling.


J Roberson

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7084
From: keystring@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 00:49:44 EST
Subject: ADVENTURER FOR HIRE

     ADVENTURER FOR HIRE ====

I am an experienced starhand, with many talents, and years of experience.  I
have been stranded at Denver starport in the Colorado sector for some time,
due to financial problems on the part of my previous employer.  I am looking
for a way off planet, and out system.  Am willing to assist in any way
possible, given I find a needy and worthwhile party!!
I am staying at hotel AOL.   Please send all joining offers to
KEYSTRING@aol.com     I am well equiped and ready to travell !!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7085
From: psualum@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 07:58:53 EST
Subject: More background ranting

 I apologize in advance for the length of my ravings that follows but here is
my 2 bits worth re. background:

What plot feature does the Virus provide?  IMHO it is the same as with the
other game company with a 3 letter acronym using the Time of Trouble to
explain the transition to a new set of rules (in that case a change in spell
use, elimination of some character classes, etc.).  W. TNE the new career
procedure and planetary cmbt rules do not require a major transition but the
new maintainance, space travel (esp w/in system), and space cmbt rules are so
different that the Virus plot device eases (maybe) the transition to the new
rules.

Perhaps it was unnecessary to have Virus change the setting to the extent
that
GDW has done.  I feel that GDW has used the Virus to create a setting that
makes the most of the new system, esp. re. maintaining ships (particularly
old
ships) and travel within systems.

I have been playing Traveller for over 10 yrs (I even have read Book 0) and I
would like to have seen the continuance of the Imperium.  My dream setting
would have the Wars for the Iridium Throne last for 100-200 yrs, grinding to
a
halt with the release of the Virus.  The various factions would stabilize
with
control of areas of varying size that are separated by vast zones (some at
least a sector in width) ravaged by BOTH the wars and Virus which would be
similar to the worlds of the TNE Wilds.  Result: a situation similar to the
setting of TNE but w/out the (almost) entire elimination of the Imperium.
Each of the "civilized" areas would be supported by official products (to
varying degrees).  As an aside I don't think this would reduce the market,
TSR
has released many campaign settings and still supports a number of AD&D
settings, I'd wager that the majority of Traveller junkies would buy all the
products even if they only used parts of each.

Despite my Imperial sympathies I shall play Devil's (Virus'?) Advocate re.
why
a Star Viking (it does sound corny, I imagine Conan leaping from a ship,
hewing his enemies' limbs w. a broad sword before carrying off women and
looted hi-tech booty) or RCES campaign might provide a more exciting setting
than a CT/MT Frontier product.
   IMHO the RCES does more than the IISS.  They explore unknown systems and
worlds,  seek people w. hi-tech items, make contact w/out irritating those
people, use diplomacy to open trade or aquire items of interest by other
methods.  This may include overthrowing dictatorial/opprerssive
rulers/gov'ts.
   True the IISS could encounter many of these situations but the RCES does
so
w. less backup.  The available equipment is limited and often run-down,
making
it difficult (read more exciting) to accomplish missions.  They are also not
able to call upon vast reserves of men and material if a strong force is
encountered.  The Unknown - they face the possibility of stumbling across a
vastly superior force (Virus or sophont pocket empire) capable of not only
overwhelming an RCES expedition but of threatening the entire Coalition -
tension similar to the Borg attacking the UFP.  I submit that this did not
exist in Imperial campaigns as the Imperium seemed so vast that even the
Zhodani were only worthy foes but never did more than threaten part of a
sector.
   TNE has also added a wider array of antagonists, some of which may not
initially seem to be foes.  There are Virus controlled ships, fleets,
stations, bases, planets, and even groups of sophont
followers/slaves/hostages.  Added to this is the host of Vargr, Aslan, humans
of variuos sorts, plus other races - add to this a touch of the unknown due
to
the interval of lost contact.  There sense of security provided by the large
and seemingly unalterable Imperium is no longer available for characters to
fall back on.

End of ranting.

PBJuzyk

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7086
From: James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 13:47:13 BST
Subject: Stewart Johnson, Languages, most things.



Re: Languages etc.

I agree. I mean, here in England where we speak English (Can I get away with
saying 'properly'? On a US-dominated list. Probably not. Damn....) in many
different guises, you only have to go the the deep south-west or the north-east
to hear an accent that you cannot make head nor tail of. And this is before
you take the other home nations into consideration (Wales, Ireland, Scotland).

I know that the situation in the US is the same, having friends from Boston,
San Fran., Texas, Nevada etc. How about Down Under?

Some people may argue that in a reasonably medium-high TL (3+?) culture 
where mass media is predominant, this dialect barrier will break down, and one
homogeneous lingua franca emerge. I believe this is not so. In the short term, 
take the example of Earth. In the UK we have television consisting almost 
entirely of British (SE England/London) accents and American accents from 
imported crime series, with the odd burst of Aussie soap at lunchtimes. Yet,
we have hugely different accents separated by only 30-40 miles. In the long
term I think accents/dialect is a social phenomenom rather than a geographical
one, and, as new youth fads with new buzzwords hit the streets every 5 years 
(minutes???) there is change - I cite the 'rave' culture as one in point.

Surely then, if such differences can arise in such close proximity (both social
and geographical) then what happens when two vastly different communities
(one religious sect, one trading outpost) have a few hundred (thousand, 10,000)
years to mutate their language, even if sharing mass media?

I think when dealing with this, referees should be very careful - although it
does come down to realism vs. playability in some respects. However, an 
enterprising party should be able to devise the best strategy for translation
with some novel twists - Searching for old dictionary files, Automated equipment
with voder chips, speaking slowly and LOUDLY etc.!

However, it should be easier dealing with officials/ flight coordinaters/landing
permission bribees... Shouldn't it??

 ....no, I said land NEXT to the village, not ON the v.......

Ho hum. What else...ah yes.

Personal opinion, I know, but I am all in favour of campaign plot summaries -
gives me more of an idea of flavour CT/MT/TNE squabbling. More please (JP)...
(The man from Del Cambridge - he saay yea-eeass!)

James.

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7087
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 09:32:03 CST
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: What I want from TML

One quick comment, one quick question

(question perhaps that should be on Computer Aided Traveller...)

The Comment;

I agree with Rodger Sanger that the TML is a list I signed onto primarily
as a source of material.  I also would encourage (enthusiastically) the
other activities (something I think Rodger feels as well) as having their
own value and a place on this list.

To that end, have any of our talented programmers written starship design or
vehicle design programs?  Probably some are still in the making...

I am using Microsoft Excel and have (in about 6 hours of work) made a 
reasonably presentable small arms design template (conventional only)
and will post at least the test design in the next few days.

If anyone wants a copy of the Excel Spreadsheet Template (in Excel 3.0/windows)
just drop me a line.  The spreadsheet requires having FF&S to fill in some 
places, but does all of the formulae.

The Question;

Has anyone tried to use one of these home floorplan design programs to do 
deckplans?  I am considering laying out the $40-60 on such a product for just
such a purpose and would like a reccomendation.

Is it possible that we could come to some internal (to the TML) informal
standard which would allow al of us to exchange deck plans?  I have several
(all of the hand-drawn variety) which I am rather happy about, but have not 
been able to find a suitable medium for putting them in a computer.

The one program I have used is the inexpensive CAD program from IMSL (name
escapes me "something-cad").  Perhaps I am not suited to the controls, but
I could not easily reproduce accurately my starship design (in a reasonable 
amount of time).

Happy travelling,

Pete

"The opinions expressed certainly have nothing whatever to do with
the University of Chicago or the Department of Biochemistry (I just
work there and use their toys)."

Peter Brenton					   (312) 702-0030
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology	pete@biochem.uchicago.edu
The University of Chicago	

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7088
Subject: Ship design & deckplans
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 07:50:54 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu> writes:
> To that end, have any of our talented programmers written starship design
> or vehicle design programs? Probably some are still in the making...

Paul Dale (I think) wrote one LONG AGO for MegaTraveller, the CAT list
took a good look at it then.

> I am using Microsoft Excel and have (in about 6 hours of work) made a 
> reasonably presentable small arms design template (conventional only) and
> will post at least the test design in the next few days.

DOn't just post, upload it to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca.  If you cannot, get
after me to do it for you.

> Has anyone tried to use one of these home floorplan design programs to do 
> deckplans? I am considering laying out the $40-60 on such a product for
> just such a purpose and would like a reccomendation.

Mark Cook has used a drawing program and come up with some of the best
deck plans I've ever seen. Check out the Elissa, Alcyon, and other deck
plans on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca, under the pbem directory. Also there are a
few more in the vehicles directory.

> Is it possible that we could come to some internal (to the TML)
> informal standard which would allow al of us to exchange deck plans? I
> have several (all of the hand-drawn variety) which I am rather happy
> about, but have not been able to find a suitable medium for putting
> them in a computer.

The best image format, that the greatest number of people can view and
manipulate, remains GIF.  A far second is, perhaps, MS-Windows BMP.

Standing on the shoulders of other TMLers who did the work,

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7089
From: James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 17:01:19 BST
Subject: ftpmail


BTW, travellypeeps,

Does anyone know if you can ftpmail from ftp.engrg.uwo.ca?

I.e. would :

To:   ftpmail@ftp.engrg.uwo.ca

content:

reply-to: james@uk.co.camscan
open 
cd pub/traveller
get....
 .
 .
 .
close



work?


Cheerribye ver' muchachas meines petits weans.

James.

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7090
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 02:27:19 +0200
From: Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no>
Subject: Computer multiplier      

From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

>       RULES QUESTION:
>   Can you put more than one weapon through an MFD, automate the turret
>than have a physical gunner there, and call it a BATTERY? (This might
>be something to consider for BATTLE RIDER...) If so, you could easily
>reduce gunners on the AHL back to the level given in ARRIVAL
>VENGEANCE, thus meaning you don't have to conscript entire small worlds
>just to crew your ship.

IN the rules of BL it states that several turrets or barbettes can be
controlled by one MFD. And thus I would also find it possible to save in
on the crew count when it comes to gunners. With the FF&S rules I have
made a set of turrets and barbettes that are unmanned, but must be
controlled by a MFD. If there is interest in getting this list I'll post
it at a later date, either here or e-mail it to you. It is an "official"
HIWG document, and may be obtainable from Bryan Borich, or Clay Bush.

Roger "StarWolf" Myhre
                                         

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7091
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 21:22:55 PST
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7081-7090 V70#20


James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com> writes:
> Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu> writes:
[stuff deleted}
> > I am using Microsoft Excel and have (in about 6 hours of work) made a
> > reasonably presentable small arms design template (conventional only) and
> > will post at least the test design in the next few days.
>
> DOn't just post, upload it to ftp.engrg.uwo.ca.  If you cannot, get
> after me to do it for you.

Anyone out there using Quattro Pro for Windows?  if so I have a
finished small arms design worksheet that includes CPR slug throwers,
gauss small arms and grenade launchers.  *Most* of the noticable bugs
are fixed but NO gurentees.  I beleive Excel can translate it into
smoething it can understand, if not I can try to port it over.  (This
is starting to sound like a practical problem for you language folks
out there :)) E-mail me privately ifinterested and I'd upload it to
ftp.engrg.uwo.ca if there sufficient interest.

> > Has anyone tried to use one of these home floorplan design programs to do
> > deckplans? I am considering laying out the $40-60 on such aproduct for
> > just such a purpose and would like a reccomendation.

used one over chrismas...can't remember the name...but I didn't run
down the street jumping for joy. :(

> Mark Cook has used a drawing program and cme up with some of the best
> deck plans I've ever seen. Check out the Elissa, Alcyon, and other deck
> plans on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca, under the pbem directory. Also there are a
> few more in the vehicles directory.
>
> > Isit possible that we could come to some internal (to the TML)
> > informal standard which would allow al of us to exchange deck plans? I
> > have several (all of the hand-drawn variety) which I am rather happy
> > about, bu have not been able to find a suitable medium for putting
> > them in a computer.
>
> The best image format, that the greatest number of people can view and
> manipulate, remains GIF.  A far second is, perhaps, MS-Windows MP.
If so perhaps we should make available some shareware Gif/BMP viewers
at ftp.engrg.uwo.ca.  BTW how would one go about editing GIF images?

Adios!

- -Ed F.


------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7092
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 20:53:19 -0900
From: Dave 'Philios' Prentice <ASDYP@acad2.alaska.edu>
Subject: TNE Starship Architect *ALERT*

Well, hopefully I have obtained a small portion of your attention by this
point.  Thats at least what I'm shooting for.  I am certaing that there
are TNE starship architects out there with more time than I have, but 
since they are Traveller junkies they also have more sense than time.  :)
 
I've enjoyed the Lotus worksheet that some extremely kind soul uploaded
for public consumption in MegaTraveller ship design for some time now.
Now I find myself migrating into TNE, for reasons unknown to me.  I think
that I must have some latent lemming DNA that is being expressed.  Anyways,
I would really like to see some kind of a worksheet for TNE starship
design.  I tried to convert the MegaTraveller one over, but there are
too many little tables that I can't reduce to a single formula in TNE
and FF&S.  Should I be trying to do this with Improv instead?
 
My fervent hope (and its a hope as big as all of the RCES) is that someone
out there with more time or spreadsheet knowhow than myself has already
come up with a nifty little worksheet for starship design.  My spreadsheet
of choice is Lotus 123 v2.0a for OS/2, so I can import almost anything
known to man (including Excel).
 
My fellow Travellers, the hopes and dreams of the RCES are depending on you.
 
Dave



------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7093
Subject: cross reference?
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 8:04:24 CST
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

I'm beginning to cross reference all of my Traveller matrial.  Does
anyone have suggestions about software tools to make this task easier?
I have started with the Amber Zones from the JoTAS and I'll be going
from there.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7094
Subject: Languages, dialects, and counter culture
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:11:09 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk> writes:
> I agree. I mean, here in England where we speak English (Can I get away
> with saying 'properly'? On a US-dominated list. Probably not. Damn....)

I believe most US people would not deny that the British speak "proper"
English. Retentively prim & proper, to be precise. Unless you're from
Liverpool. We have relatively local culture (British Columbia) which may
feel it is more "proper" than England!

> I cite the 'rave' culture as one in point.

In Eugene we have a Deadhead culture (fans of 'The Grateful Dead'), on
which there was a Linguistics article in the local newspaper. Dialects
seem to spring up spontaneously as a means to cohesively bond a group of
people together who do not wish to be part of the mainstream, whether
this be for religious, moral, political, professional, or other reasons.

The dialect allows easy recognition of those who are 'in', vs. those
that are 'out'. Recall the special language you shared with your
High-school friends that adults or other high-schoolers would look at
you quizzically about. Most TMLers, I wager, would recognize what "'tis
but a scratch" refers to, but the majority of the US citizenry probably
does not.

I just watched 'Demolition Man' last night. The future Police woman has
studied the 1990s slang, and still comes up with 'let's blow this guy'
instead of 'let's blow this guy away', to the amusement of the audience.
Dialectical faux pas like this demonstrate the powerful 'in' vs. 'out'
recognition effects that a counter-cultural dialect can precipitate.

Deadheads use specialized words: 'Dosing' and 'Cid' for LSD. They refer
to the Dead band members by first name, and the use the venue rather
than the city to refer to a particular performance. They use 'show'
rather than 'concert'. Example: "Went to the Autzen show. Jim was really
happenin'. I was dosin' heavily." translates as "I attended the Eugene
concert at Autzen Stadium. The guitar player gave a very satisfying
performance. I had taken LSD." If you had said it the second way, the
Deadheads would know in four words that you were not clued in to the
life of a Deadhead.

James

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7095
Date:         Tue, 29 Mar 94 16:51:23 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Have your Imperium and Virus too!

I think the campaign idea that was posted here about the Virus striking 200
years later and the Imperium being still around is an excellent way to get a
"compromise" background that allows the use of the TNE rules while retaining
the star-spanning empire that so many people (myself included) enjoy. You could
even simply have the various factions of the Rebellion retain their territories
while still having the Hivers help form the RC in the Old Expanses, Norris with
the Regency in the Spinward Marches (after ARRIVAL VENGEANCE, something very
much like the Regency would probably have happened anyway) while using the
Virus and vampire fleets etc. to make the spaces in between VERY deadly. If
you wish, Imagine a three way meeting between Lucan's Imperium, the Solomani
Empire and the Reformation Coalition in a Virus-blasted Diaspora sector!
   Perhaps someone might care to speculate how a state of affairs like this
might have come about...
                         Allen

------------------------------

Bundle: 564
Archive-Message-Number: 7096
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 18:06:04 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: TNE-Pocket

In Msg#7082 (Bun#564), George Herbert <gwh@crl.com> wrote:
> For those who haven't seen previous discussions, TNE-Pocket is developing
> a couple of subsectors of Reavers Deep sector as a set of Pocket Empires
> for TNE, which GDW approved.  The current status of when we can publish
> the stuff is up in the air, which Guy Garnett could (should? 8-) send an
> update about, but it is approved by Dave Nielsen @ gdw.

Well, that looks like my cue to jump in and explain what's going on.

TNE-Pocket is a discussion group which is developing 4 subsectors of Reavers'
Deep as a pocket empire and general setting for New Era adventures.  In our
humble opinions, this location represents the best mix of a rich history
(which we have taken considerable care to preserve and expand upon) combined
with unique adventuring possibilities in the New Era.

However, it is not accurate to say that our work is GDW "Approved" - it's not
official background material.  However, Dave Nilsen (Traveller product
manager at GDW) is aware of what we are doing, and GDW has no plans to
explicitly invalidate or contradict anything we write about Reavers' Deep in
the New Era.  J. Andrew Keith (who, along with his brother William H. Keith,
was responsible for creating Reavers' Deep for Classic Traveller) is also
aware of what we're doing, and has no objections.

The overall tone of the background is considerably different from that of the
official "Reformation Coalition" campaign.  As always in Reavers' Deep,
things are a little different from that of the (former) Third Imperium.  The
empires are smaller (typically only one or two worlds), the tech levels are
lower (TL-9 is "average" for starfaring cultures in the region), and the
political situation is very different.  Alien cultures abound: Humans
(Solomani, Vilani, and human minor races), Droyne, Aslan, and several other
races are found in the area.

Initially, player characters are Humans (or optionally Droyne, if the referee
has the Classic Traveller materials to support Droyne PCs) from the Gralyn
Union, a small (two star system, three inhabited worlds) pocket empire at one
end of one of the major mains in the region.  The initial theme is
exploration - there's been no offworld contact for the last 70 years; the
players are equipped with partial library data and full starmaps (all of it
70 to 100 years old), and get to explore the New Era firsthand.

Material generated for TNE-Pocket is publishable, should we find a Traveller
magazine willing to print it.  Some of this material should start appearing
in The Traveller Chronicle (hopefully beginning with #4; several articles
have been submitted) and possibly other magazines in the future.

Currently, most of the available resources are in the form of background
material, outlines, and a set of adventure ideas that need development work.
Complete UWPs (pre-Rebellion, Hard Times, and New Era) are available for the
area, as is a set of library data entries, and a number of short world
descriptions.  History write-ups for the major worlds are also available, as
is a players' introduction.  This last was written for one of the two
"playtest" campaigns.  These campaigns are currently being run by TNE-Pocket
contributors are in progress using the available background.  I expect these
campaigns to generate adventure material which will be used to fill out the
resources available.

Almost all of the material that has been generated to date is available for
anonymous FTP from the archive site at typhoon.berkeley.edu in the
\pub\Traveller\TNE-pocket directory (note the capitalization, it's important)
and it's subdirectories.  I just checked, and the archive is up to date as of
about a month ago.  You may have to sort through the archived messages (the
files List.*) to find the most recent stuff.

The current plan is to pull together sufficient background and adventure
material, once it is all generated, and make a sourcebook for New Era
adventures in Reavers' Deep that we can then make available on the archive
site.  There is, however, a considerable amount of work that needs to be done
before that will happen.


Guy Garnett, aka ...
wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #565: Msgs 7097-7101 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed Mar 30 22:00:03 EST 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:00:04 EST
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #565: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 565  7097 29-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 2 << From Monday n
 565  7098 30-Mar-1994 James Dening     Re: Languages, dialects, and counter cu
 565  7099 30-Mar-1994 Ray_Pullar       The New Era << David Johnson responds:
 565  7100 30-Mar-1994 "Britta B. Damw  Meson guns << Matt Good was writing to 
 565  7101 30-Mar-1994 mgood@MIT.EDU    Meson Handguns, Fairness, etc. << In al

------------------------------

Bundle: 565
Archive-Message-Number: 7097
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 21:26:08 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 2

From Monday night:
 
J Robertson <RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu> writes:
 
> 	Introducing language to your campaign can also help you bring the
> "cultural advantages" Jeff Zeitlin was looking for. If all your NPCs sound
> the same, they'll all seem the same.

I agree completely.  Even if you're not the sort who can ad lib accents, the
very fact that the PCs have to find a translator at times reminds them that
they're "not in Kansas anymore".  Another important point about language was
illustrated by Chewbacca and Artoo-Deetoo in the *Star Wars* films - being
able to *understand* a language doesn't mean you have to be able to (or are
even capable of) *speaking* it.  Contrary to `official' policy, I've never
had Humans able to *speak* Vargr or Aslan languages, nor could these races
speak Galanglic.  Each might understand the other but any being who only
understood one tongue would only get half of an overheard discussion.  This
means that *both* sophonts must posses second languages in order for
communication to take place.

(The *Star Wars* films used the clever device of having other characters 
`translate' for us knuckleheads in the audience.  Another clever device was
used in *The Hunt for Red October* in which the Russians started out speaking
Russian with subtitles but `dramatically' switched to English once we got the
point.)

> think a feudal technocracy can be either strong or decentralized, depending
> on just how much authority the chief monarch asks for and is ceded.

The point about feudalism is that a system with a strong monarch is no longer
feudal.  Under feudalism, *all* of the chief's power comes from the support
of her vassals.  Since it's often difficult to keep these vassals in 
agreement, feudal systems are prone to fragmentation.  Remember *Excalibur*?
*Any* night could `dub' another night - not just the `king'.

> would be the back&forth of State's Rights in the US, showing that at times
> a rep. democracy can have either a strong central government, or a weak one.

Yes, but the federal government has specific powers granted to it by the
Constitution - particularly taxation and a military; they're *not* `granted'
by the individual States.  A better example would be the European Union, which
has no powers except those granted by the member nations.  And excuse me if I
offend some European sensibilities, but, from this side of the Pond, it
looks pretty fragmented.

> Lucan *could* have cowed the Moot, if he had the backing

Etc.

Again, under a feudal system the Emperor would have had no power to coerce
*anybody* except that granted and *provided* by the Moot (his vassals).  That
Lucan was able to cow the Moot meant that he had access to power *outside*
that of the Moot.  (Or else, he had access to a majority - or plurality -
of the Moot's power and was able to `quell' the rebellious nobles in the
Moot.)  What happened though was that the Imperial Navy existed as a force
external to the Imperial nobility and this was the power used by Lucan to
move against the Moot.

> Examples would include many of the great dictators: Caesar, Napolean, and
> Hitler.

Again, none of these men rose to power in a feudal system.  Both Caesar and
Napoleon used the military as a base of power outside the `nobility' and Hitler
came to power through a political party structure that again was *outside*
the `feudal' apparatus, which, in modern nations, is represented by the
economic power base - corporations and the like.

A centrally-strong feudal structure has never existed.  A good case study
would be Alexander the Great.  Through the force of his personality he was
able to get the various groups he conquered to give up their own interests
in favor of `further' conquests.  As soon as Alexander died and the `Great
Mission' came to an end, his various lieutenants began squabbling among
themselves and the empire fragmented.  Sort of like when Uther Pendragon
died.  You might hold them together in the face of a common enemy but as soon
as the vassals get a breather they'll be at each other's throats.

> their success, and like it or not, they *are* bringing order to their patch
> of space - 200 years down the road, many of the conquered planets will be 
> *happy* to be RCES members
> Of course, there's always Quebec :)

Well, actually, there's Africa, South Asia, Latin America, Central Asia.
Eastern Europe, *North* America.  I can't seem to bring to mind *anyplace*
where the locals are glad they were overrun by the `benevolent civilizers'.

> by joing together, forming a - what's that wored? ahhh, COALITION! They would
> then be democratic for a time

Un uh.  Look at the former Soviet states.  They have no tradition whatsoever
of democractic principles.  The current Russian legislture, the Duma, is
named for the *first* legislative advisory body established by the tsars,
who were autocrats, which didn't have the clout of the British Parliament
in Oliver Cromwell's day.  Democratic principles in Western European society
go back hundreds of years and yet just two generations ago we were still
*lynching* folks to keep them from voting here in the US!  The Imperium,
whose roots were in yet another `empire', has been around for 1100 years.
So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
`Peter Plutocrat' come from?
 
> 	The collapse of markets may have come about during the collapse, but
> I'm sure 70 years is enough time for *new* markets to develop.

May be, but the Star Vikings, at least as they've been described, don't
seem to be interested in markets at all.  I again refer y'all to Beam's
novel.  Lucas Trask, the Space Viking of the title, was one of the few to
realize that he'd be better off `trading' with the worlds of the `wilds' than
he'd be `chicken stealing'.  It's kind of like that story about teaching the
starving man how to fish; and yet the Star Vikings who are `recovering' lost
technology are still looking for that free hand out.

> 	Bootstrap: The RC *will* benefit in the long run, having new trade
> partners that aren't directly controlled by the RCES.

My point exactly.  It's just that there is no current benefit to sell to RC
`voters' except for altruism - again, not something that jumps to my mind
when I think of `gun-toting' vikings.

The key point to remember is that with a strong, central government the RC is
either going to be `altruisitc developers' or `chicken stealers' - there's
no room for both.


James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk> writes:
  
> Some people may argue that in a reasonably medium-high TL (3+?) culture 
> where mass media is predominant, this dialect barrier will break down, and one
> homogeneous lingua franca emerge. I believe this is not so.

I guess my point is that regardless of how diverse various dialects might or
might not be these folks can understand the `common' or `majority' language
good enough to get by - or else they'd learn to understand it like Hispanics
in North America and the Japanese have learned American English.  The real
question I guess is how much English the Japanese would speak after 70
years if us Americans `went away'?

Y'all take care, ya heer?

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA


------------------------------

Bundle: 565
Archive-Message-Number: 7098
From: James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:40:15 BST
Subject: Re: Languages, dialects, and counter culture


James T Perkins replies:

>> I believe most US people would not deny that the British speak "proper"
>> English. Retentively prim & proper, to be precise. Unless you're from
>> Liverpool. We have relatively local culture (British Columbia) which may
>> feel it is more "proper" than England!


Retentively? Ouch....(suck suck suck.....)

Only joking!

Also,
>>                                                        .....Dialects
>> seem to spring up spontaneously as a means to cohesively bond a group of
>> people together who do not wish to be part of the mainstream, whether
>> this be for religious, moral, political, professional, or other reasons.

I agree. However, don't mistake the tone of my earlier posting - I was 
intending to comment, rather than condemn. Certainly I have been part of
various groups over my life that have had 'in words' - college rugby, in the
huuuugest way, you villager (sic).


So, 'til jaz timmy, let's spug pish, with some right on pif paf pofs!
Kreegah, mutniks!

Yours dialectically,

James.

------------------------------

Bundle: 565
Archive-Message-Number: 7099
From: Ray_Pullar <csh019@cch.coventry.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 16:17:50 +0100
Subject: The New Era

David Johnson responds:
 Okay, like the Revolutionary American Federalists.  Since the
 government is described as `representative' I assume neither the
 Centrists nor Federalists believe in aristocracy?  Democracy, or some
 form of voting at least, is the way to govern.  One wonders where
 these `progressive' attitudes come from (hasn't it been suggested that
 the Regency is more `democratic' as well?) in the ruins of a millenia
 of aristocracy?  Democratic traditions just don't spring up over
 night, or even in seventy years, after that sort of history - look at
 the former Soviet Union.  (How long has it been since the Magna
 Charta?)  And the post-Imperial states haven't had a big democracy
 offering financial incentives to make the move to democracy either.
 Only in the mind(?) of GDW . . . .

And in the TNE rulebook.  The Reformation Coalition is pro-democracy
because it holds the Imperial system of government responsible for the
destruction of interstellar civilisation.  They don't see the rebellion
as some aberrant blip in the Third Imperium's history, some kind of
unfortunate accident that screwed it up.  The RCers see it as the
logical (perhaps inevitable) culmination of the whole Imperial system.
Hence they don't want to repeat the same mistakes.  Hence their attempt
to construct a new and fundamentally different form of interstellar
government.  And if you think about the history of the Traveller
universe they may have a point.  There have been three human
interstellar civilisations ruled using the Imperial system.  They have
all collapsed eventually.

As for the member worlds of the former Third Imperium having no
democratic traditions - well, some of them were democracies (look at
the UPP of some of the old era sectors).  Local planetary governments
were free to use whatever system they liked so long as they towed the
line as far as Imperial policy was concerned and payed their taxes to
the Emperor.  The Imperium governed at the subsector level and above,
not at the planetary level.  Whenever a movement arose within the
Imperium to create a multi-star system govermental unit independent of
the Imperium it was discouraged by the Imperial Navy.  Remember the
Solomani Rim War?  All the Solomani wanted was independence from the
Imperium (using a democratic form of government).

I find it amusing that so many people have a rose-tinted view of the
Third Imperium.  They seem to regard it as some kind of utopia.  But it
was ruled by a hereditary aristocracy for Grudd's sake!  The whole
Imperial system was set up to benefit them.  And in the end, it was
their thirst for power that brought the Imperium down and killed
billions of sentient life forms.

Allen Shock:
 In all, the RC is a fairly organized governmental entity (at least for
 a relatively new government),

David Johnson:
 Okay, which means the Star Vikings are either all `bad' or all `good'
 depending on how you see the RCES defining it's role.  There won't be
 much variation in the ranks.

I think that this is a specious argument.  You're trying to force
things into one absolute or another.  There's is no reason for this to
be the case.  As a citizen of a newly emergent multi-nation government
(the European Union) the idea that somehow all the member governments
and their populations will be forced to think the same way strikes me
as ridiculous.  It just isn't happening.  That said, there are
nationalist's within every nation who would have you believe that this
is happening.

David Johnson:
 Aren't *markets* the fundamental `necessity of interstellar
 commerce'?  Doesn't this sort of preclude `chicken stealing' of any
 sort?  (Whether I call it `identification', `location', `preservation'
 or whatever?)  Wasn't the collapse of *markets* (and access to them),
 in GDW's own words, what led to the collapse of the Imperium during
 the Rebellion rather than a lack of resources?  (Do they ever read
 what they put out after it hits the stores?)


Well, markets (and just about anything else) have a habit of collapsing
when you lob high-yield thermonuclear missiles at them.  As for the
development of interstellar commerce being incompatible with 'chicken
stealing' - have you looked at the 19th century colonisation of
Africa?  Plenty of 'chicken stealing' took place with the European
colonists ripping off the native Africans every which way they could
while they built (or rather extended and dominated) the local economy.
And exports from Africa were used to fuel the economic development in
Europe and in America.  Admittedly this is not a nice model for the
activities of the RC which is intent on practicising 'enlightened
selfishness'.

Allen Shock:
 Hot Recovery, where those who have the tech want to keep it. All
 missions against TED's (Technologically Elevated Dictatorships) fall
 into this category.

David Johnson:
 Okay, so `good' Vikings only hit TEDs while `bad' Vikings will take it
 from you regardless.  Who makes this TED determination anyway?  The
 RCES?  That's sort of like the 1950s CIA looking for commies isn't
 it?


Sure, any classificatory system can be self-serving.  Remember the
Major/Minor race distinctions that the Vilani came up with?  It was a
handy way of keeping those uppity newcomers to the interstellar scene
in their place (below all those Vilani aristocrats).  Or look at the
foreign policy of any contemporary power such as the U.S.  Notice how
enemies of the U.S. are mysteriously transformed into enemies of the
free-world, democracy, goodness, god etc. I don't see how this is a
problem.  The RC see themselves as the good guys.  Other people may see
them as the bad guys.  Are they really good guys or bad guys?  It's up
to you but I think that there is much evidence to support either view.
Mabye they're neither.


Allen Shock:
    INTEGRATION: Actual integration of inhabited worlds into the RC.
    Quoting from the book, "Diplomacy is the preferred means of
 integrating a world into the Coalition". When the people like the
 government, and it treats them well, the RC tags the planet TDO (Trade
 and Diplomacy Only), no SAG's allowed.

David Johnson:
 So this is the United Federation of Planets!  :-)  (Join Starfleet!
 Tour the galaxy!  Meet interesting aliens!  And sleep with them!  :-)

Or mabye it's just the pragmatic recognition of the fact that a ruler
with a contented population who will support him in a war is a tougher
enemy than a ruler who is hated and who will not gain as much support.
Conquering a people and then ruling them is a difficult business and it
can tie down your resources (starships, military units) for years.
Look at Northern Island (an example from my own country's history).
This area was conquered 400 years ago and it still rebels against
British rule.  It is easier to rule when you've the cooperation of the
ruled.  I don't think that the Coalition has the manpower and equipment
to force itself on the surrounding worlds.

Allen Shock:
     A second type of Integration method is Pacification. Only two
     worlds have been integrated this way, but there will undoubtably
 be more.

David Johnson:
 And this is the US in Somalia (only RC citizens give a damn about
 folks who aren't just like them and aren't squeemish in the face of
 casualties)?  Or is this the Soviets in Afghanistan, which the RCES
 uses as a training guide?  With a relatively stable, centralized
 government in the RC this `good vik' - `bad vik' issue will have to be
 resolved.


I don't think so.  Remember IranGate?  Seems that government agencies
and department's within agencies can have their own agendas, sometimes
incompatible with the policy of the government.  Out in the wilds you
are on your own.  Tough decisions must be made quickly.  RC personnel
have to interpret the guidelines.  Is this guy a real TED who we should
overthrow or is he not 'bad' enough?  Don't know.  Better check with
headquarters.  Uh...they're only 8 weeks away by starship.

Allen Shock:
      REGENERATION is the final step; helping the worlds to rebuild
      their technological base and reestablishing interstellar
 commerce. This is, as the book points out, the major goal of the RC.
 Two operations are used here; Commerce with Free Traders and RC
 merchants,

David Johnson:
 Is this sort of like letting Exxon or Alcoa come into your country to
 help you develop?  (Or William Penn buying Manhattan for a handfull of
 beads?) Doesn't sound too benevolent to me.

But it creates lots of local jobs.  I assume that you think that the
economic development offered by the Third Imperium to its' member
worlds was unselfish and totally beneficial?  Here's a nice man from
Naasirka who wants to build a huge industrial complex on your pastoral
planet...if you refuse, the local Imperial governor (who just happens
to be a member of Naasirka's board of directors) will be most
upset...no more Regional Aid for you.

David Johnson:
 Now this sounds benevolent but this has to come from altrusim - the RC
 won't recognize any benefit (other than spiritual) from this sort of
 behavior for decades.  My question is: do the TNE rules spend as much
 time explaining irrigation network as they do explaning armor piercing
 rounds?


Perhaps GDW didn't envisage people wanting to spend a lot of time
planning irrigation systems.  Still if enough people write in mabye
they'll release a rules supplement for it...


Allen Shock:
 >  That tone is one of empire building and the > forging of an
 interstellar government out of a group of loosely > cooperating worlds
 who face unknown dangers at their borders.

David Johnson:
 Maybe, but empire buliding is seldom very altruistic and often very
 bloody.  It seems to me there's a fundamental conflict in the goals of
 the RC.  Is GDW trying to make the RC everything to everyone?  Should
 they?  And more importantly, can they?  Is there the potential for a
 split between empire- builders and altruisitc-developers?  It seems
 the internal structure of the RC is more important to the Centrists,
 Federalists, and other blocs than are these fundamental issues of how
 the RC will interact with the rest of the world.

You are still intent on forcing the RC to be either one thing or the
other.  I don't see why it can't be both. Are you saying that this kind
of conflict in goals doesn't exist in the activities of real world
governments and their foreign policies?  I don't see this as a problem,
I see it as realism.  And I think that this conflict makes the setting
a lot more interesting.  Selfish RCers versus the do-gooders.  Yeah!

Allen Shock:
 > Whether that will be in the form of the RC and the Regency >
 combining or what, I dunno.

David Johnson:
 You can bet that by the time the RC meets the Regency each will have
 its own interests which will most likely be in conflict.  Those who
 have `rebuilt from scratch' won't have any interest in turning over
 what they've wrought to those who stood by `holding the torch'.  Now
 there's an interesting conflict!  (And d**n, now I've gone and
 broadcast it to everyone!)

I've been thinking about this too.  Since the RC hates the Imperial
system and the Regency is the sole remaining part of the Imperium, I
don't think that they will get on too well.  I hope that GDW do publish
some information about what the Regency's plans are.  I would have
thought that they should be sending expeditions out into Deneb and
Corridor at the same time as the RC is beginning to expand.  Unless
some as yet unknown third party appears as a common enemy we can expect
conflagration when they contact each other.

*****************************************************************************
* Ray Pullar   csh019@cov.ac.uk                                             *
* "Quantum mechanics?  Even I don't fully understand it." - Ian Sales       *
*****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 565
Archive-Message-Number: 7100
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 09:29:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Britta B. Damwitz   " <bdamwitz@lonestar.utsa.edu>
Subject: Meson guns

Matt Good was writing to Loren Wiseman and...

>  >Matt Good
> Loren Wiseman

> I received my reply from Loren...
>  Rules Questions:
>  > 3) Scott 2G Kellogg used FF&S to design Meson Handguns. Is
>  > there a lower end on the size of PA's and Meson Guns?
>  
>  Strictly speaking no, but we did not intend for them to be made
>  into small arms. The chapter on laser weapons deals in a fair
>  amount of detail with making laser small arms. The chapters on
>  PAWs and Meson guns do not, which indicates our intentions.
>  
>  > Do ALL PA's and Meson Guns (even ground combat designs)
>  > require Beam Pointers?
>  
>  Yes.

NOT TRUE!  Read your own rules!  See FF&S p89 quotation below!

>       LKW

Well folx,

I hadn't had a good enough idea to try my hand at them yet, so
here's my first attempt at using FF&S for designing weapons.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT:

A meson gun...

With a folding stock.

Check it out folx, there's no minimum size listed!  The limiting
factor on portability is the mass of the homopolar genarator.  To
keep mass down, I did away with the power source by throwing in an
explosive power generator (essentually a cartrige powered HPG).  I
took the rules for ruggedization and backpack power units from the
hand lasers section.

Loren says they didn't imply that meson guns could be small, but...
The rules section states:  (FF&S p 89)  "All heavy (non-small arms)
lasers, particle accelerators and meson guns require beam
pointers..."  To my mind that there are indeed NON small arms,
lasers, particle accelerators meson guns.  Ah well, go figure.

In any case, I proceed:  Since this is obviously not a *heavy*
weapon, no beam pointer is required.  However, as we need to know
the exact range to the target (so we know where the mesons need to
decay) a rather precise range finder is needed.  This turned out to
be the largest expence of building the gun (91% of total cost).  It
requires an electronic site and a laser site to determine the range
accurately for the meson stream.  The laser to illuminate the
target and the electronic site to get the range using the laser
spot for a reference.

Once range is accurately determined, the meson stream is targetted
10cm behind the range as set by the laser site in order to
penetrate armor accurately.  (This range spread can easily be
adjusted by the firer)

Disappointments:
Unfortunately, these turned out to be far heavier than I hoped them
to be.  However they could still be carried by a man in battle
dress, and the higher tech versions could just barely be carried
without an exoskeleton.  I also wanted to make the firing cycle
time faster, but that would have taken weight even higher, so we
are stuck with 1 shot per five second combat round.  However, as
this is a squad support weapon I found it to be acceptable.

Each of the weapons listed below has a DV of 20 (considered a DV of
1 when fired against ships).  Further, we are hitting the target
with 40,000 joules of radiation.  Now that is about 100 times the
dose of LD50.  This is far greater than Even Traveller medicine can
deal with.  The victim hit with the beam will die between 24 hrs
after exposure from neurologic and cardiovascular breakdown,
(Cerebrovascular Syndrome).

Range, is fine, the listed maximum range is the distance at which
the gun still has a DV of 20.  Note that according to FF&S this is
still 'short range' for a meson gun.  I'm not sure how this would
fit into the FF&S computations of what constitutes effective range.

Nevertheless this is basically a proof of concept.  I have a FAR
more dangerous idea than a Meson handgun.  A meson gun for dealing
with boarding parties and hijackers.  A small turret with a
homopolar generator located up on the bridge.  Hook it into the
security cameras for targetting information.  Now you don't NEED to
send Captain 'Vouf off with his gauss pistols to deal with the
robot running amok.  Just blast the little beastie from the bridge.
Fire right through the bulkheads, walls etc.  You might want to set
up additional guns to allow you to fire in such a way so you don't
have to fire through radiation sensitive equipment.  Two or three
guns ought to allow you to hit any spot on the ship.

My initial estimate on this set up is that you could put one
together at TL 11 with a DV of 5 for 3500 cr or so, less at higher
TL.  Hooked into ship's power supply would allow you 1 shot per
combat round at 1MW draw.  Increased power input allows more shots
per round.  However, you might need an indirect fire site which
would cost 200,000 more.

Of further note:  All the hand units listed below are Bulk-0 for
purposes of fast draws.

MAMP-11 (Meson Accelerator Man Portable)  Total Cost 2527 Cr
Hand unit
Mass:          1.288 Kg
Length:        15/35 cm
DV:            1
MaxRange:      80 Km
Cost:          2359 Cr

EPG-11 Backpack power supply
Mass Loaded:   46.8 Kg
Mass Empty:    27.6 Kg
Volume:        14.4 Liters
Magazine:      20 rnds 0.2Mj Chemical Plasma Cartridge 20 Cr/rnd
Cost:          168 Cr
========================================
MAMP-12 (Meson Accelerator Man Portable)  Total Cost 2495 Cr
Hand unit
Mass:          1.234 Kg
Length:        15/35 cm
DV:            1
MaxRange:      100 Km
Cost:          2355 Cr

EPG-12 Backpack power supply
Mass Loaded:   32.6 Kg
Mass Empty:    23 Kg
Volume:        11.2 Liters
Magazine:      20 rnds 0.2Mj Pulse Plasma Cartridge 5 Cr/rnd
Cost:          140 Cr
========================================
MAMP-13 (Meson Accelerator Man Portable)  Total Cost 2481 Cr
Hand unit
Mass:          1.234 Kg
Length:        15/35 cm
DV:            1
MaxRange:      100 Km
Cost:          2355 Cr

EPG-13 Backpack power supply
Mass Loaded:   30.3 Kg
Mass Empty:    20.7 Kg
Volume:        10.2 Liters
Magazine:      20 rnds 0.2Mj Pulse Plasma Cartridge 5 Cr/rnd
Cost:          126 Cr
========================================
MAMP-14 (Meson Accelerator Man Portable)  Total Cost 2467 Cr
Hand unit
Mass:          1.228 Kg
Length:        15/35 cm
DV:            1
MaxRange:      120 Km
Cost:          2355 Cr

EPG-14 Backpack power supply
Mass Loaded:   24.8 Kg
Mass Empty:    18.4 Kg
Volume:        8.8 Liters
Magazine:      20 rnds 0.2Mj Pulse Fusion Cartridge 2 Cr/rnd
Cost:          112 Cr
========================================
MAMP-15 (Meson Accelerator Man Portable)  Total Cost 2453 Cr
Hand unit
Mass:          1.228 Kg
Length:        15/35 cm
DV:            1
MaxRange:      120 Km
Cost:          2355 Cr

EPG-15 Backpack power supply
Mass Loaded:   22.5 Kg
Mass Empty:    16.1 Kg
Volume:        7.8 Liters
Magazine:      20 rnds 0.2Mj Pulse Fusion Cartridge 2 Cr/rnd
Cost:          98 Cr
=================================================================
(Here are some more detailed plans should any of you be interested
in the actual workings of it all):

Meson Body Pistol TL 11:

Tunnel:  500 joules draw
length:  10 cm           (Range 80Km at TL 11)
mass < 1 gram
Volume < 1cm^3
cost < 1 Cr

Explosive Power Generator  ROF:  1 per 5 seconds
Mass:  60 gm
Volume: 30 cm^3
Cost:  .33 Cr

Magazine:  20 rnds:  48 gms.
1 Rnd:  0.3 cm^3
Cost < 1 Cr
Mass:  2.4 gm
Dia:  5 mm
Length:  15 mm

Ruggedization:
Mass:  3.1 gm
Volume 3.1 cm^3
Cost < 1 Cr

Pistol grip
Mass:  100 gm.
Cost:  25 Cr.

Sites
Laser:       200 gm
Electronic:  500 gm
Cost:  2300 Cr
=====================
Total Mass:  864 gm
Total Cost:  2328 Cr
Loaded Nass:  912 gm
Max Range:  80 Km
Bulk:  0

DV of 1 (personnel damage that is) up to a range of 80 km.  Not a
whole lot, but remember that these things go right through ANY
armor.  Also, it may ONLY be a body pistol, but remember what one
of those did to the entire 3rd Imperium in the hands of Dulinor!

Radiation Damage:  Well, even for a 100 Kg human, this dose is a
bit above LD50/60.  We are in the range of Acute Radiation Syndrome
with gastrointestinal complications within 2 weeks, bleeding and
death in most exposed persons.

To be fair, tho, I have gone off the scale cost wise.  But even if
we multiply the cost of a tunnel and explosive power generator by
a factor of a thousand, the tunnel would cost 20 cr, and the EPG
would be 330 Cr.  This would of course be less at higher Tech
Levels.
==================================================================
Meson gun SMG  TL 11:

Tunnel:  500 joules draw
length:  10 cm           (Range 80Km at TL 11)
mass < 1 gram
Volume < 1cm^3
cost < 1 Cr

Explosive Power Generator  ROF:  10 per second
Mass:  210 gm
Volume: 105 cm^3
Cost:  1.155 Cr

Magazine:  100 rnds:  240 gms.
1 Rnd:  0.3 cm^3
Cost < 1 Cr
Mass:  2.4 gm
Dia:  5 mm
Length:  15 mm

Ruggedization:
Mass:  10.6 gm
Volume 10.6 cm^3
Cost < 1 Cr

Pistol grip
Mass:  100 gm.
Cost:  25 Cr.

Sites
Laser:       200 gm
Electronic:  500 gm
Cost:  2300 Cr
=====================
ROF:  10 shots per second
Total Mass:  922 gm
Total Cost:  2329 Cr
Loaded Nass:  1162 gm
Max Range:  80 Km
Bulk:  0

I figure that a rate of fire of 10 per second is pretty dang close
to a continuous beam for aiming purposes.  And of course no recoil
either.

DV of 1 (personelle damage that is) up to a range of 80 km.

Scott 2G Kellogg



------------------------------

Bundle: 565
Archive-Message-Number: 7101
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 12:25:51 -0500
Subject: Meson Handguns, Fairness, etc.

In all fairness to Loren, this is the complete text of his message
(except for a non-rules related item which I deleted):

From: gdw.support@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 05:43:00 BST
To: mgood@MIT.EDU
Subject: 
X-Genie-From: GDW.SUPPORT
 
 Matt Goodman
 
 Subject: TNE/BL/Battle Rider questions
 
 Hi Loren!
 
 Rules Questions:
 
 > 1) When Battle Rider comes out, will it contain
 > a) Different crewing formulae than BL (i.e. will capital ship
 > have different crewing formulae a la High Guard v. Book 2)? Can
 > you tell me what they will be if they will be different?
 
 Different crewing formula? I don't know. As planned right now,
 Battle Rider will contain rules for large fleet actions, (that
 is, fleets with a large number of ships) not rules for designing
 large ships. There might be a chapter of additions to FF&S/BL
 ship design, but I do not know what that will contain (I'm not
 working on the project)
 
 > b) Rules for Large Nuclear Dampeners?
 
 Perhaps, in the aforementioned additional rules section.
 
 > c) A design example of a Large Ship?
 
 Doubtful.
 
 > 2) Is it "legal" to pack as many particle accellerators as
 > will fit into a 50 or 100 ton bay?
 
 I'm fairly sure it isn't, or it would be specifically discussed. Sorry
 to screw up your campaign, but I'm sure we can help you work
 around it somehow.
 
 > This one isn't crucial to my campaign, but it is curious:
 
 > 3) Scott 2G Kellogg used FF&S to design Meson Handguns. Is
 > there a lower end on the size of PA's and Meson Guns?
 
 Strictly speaking no, but we did not intend for them to be made
 into small arms. The chapter on laser weapons deals in a fair
 amount of detail with making laser small arms. The chapters on
 PAWs and Meson guns do not, which indicates our intentions.
 
 > Do ALL PA's and Meson Guns (even ground combat designs)
 > require Beam Pointers?
 
 Yes. What is Scott trying to do, design a weapon for a
 TNE: Ghostbuster Campaign?
 
 > I have the errata booklet that came with FF&S when it first
 > came out. Is there any newer errata floating around? I can send
 > you the mod dates on the errata I have (if that's neccessary)
 
 On the way
 
 > Also, when can I purchase a copy of the Rev. 2 rules (the
 > ones with the corrections) from GDW?
 
 Any time...right now, we couldn't sell you one of the old ones,
 as we ran out before the new edition arrived.
 
(Stuff deleted).
 
      LKW
 


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #566: Msgs 7102-7111 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Apr  3 22:00:01 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #566: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 566  7102 30-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Traveller computer documentation and in
 566  7103 29-Mar-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     70:20/7089 ftp by mail << Subject: 70:2
 566  7104 30-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Regency discussion group <<  
 566  7105 28-Mar-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     TNE:What Does the Future << Subject: TN
 566  7106 31-Mar-1994 Mark Watson      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7091-7096 V71#1 <
 566  7107 30-Mar-1994 leodlion@aol.co  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7091-70... << Ple
 566  7108 30-Mar-1994 George Herbert   Re: Meson Pistols << [body pistol]
 566  7109 30-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 3 << Gentlesophont
 566  7110 30-Mar-1994 Roger Sanger     Open Letter to Loren Wiseman <<  
 566  7111 30-Mar-1994 Derek Wildstar   Re: Regency discussion group << rodge@c

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7102
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 14:01:32 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Traveller computer documentation and indexing

 
To: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
 
                   ------------------------------
                      Criss-crossing Traveller
                   (and just about anything else)
                   ------------------------------
 
Dear Matt:
 
You posted the following on TML:
 
 >I'm beginning to cross reference all of my Traveller matrial.
 
What did you mean by this statement?  ARE YOU INDEXING YOUR COLLECTION?
 
 >Does anyone have suggestions about software tools to make this
 >task easier?
 
The programs MaxThink and Transtext, used in conjunction, can
cross-reference just about anything. Not only that, MaxThink can
hold all of your custom campaign material as well, in an
organizational structure that is easy to understand and easy to
navigate.  MaxThink is a hierarchical outliner/editor with
EXTENSIVE interactive sorting, moving, and hypertext linking
capabilities.  MaxThink is the best hypertext AND text editing
product I've ever found, and I've been using it (through each of
its upgrades) fanatically on a daily basis since 1987. I rely on
it much more heavily than upon word processors (it subsumes the
most crucial functions of word processors, and adds many power
commands).
 
MaxThink allows you to manipulate text both directly AND by
paragraph, rather than merely by the cludgy block/move method
available in most word processors.  This makes it a VERY POWERFUL
text editing tool, much better suited for the tasks of writing
books, screenplays, speeches, articles, letters, designing game
products, organizing campaign materials, organizing literary
research, recording and developing ideas, task lists, projects,
plans of action, diaries, schedules, etc.  It lets you process
text as pieces of knowledge rather than as a mere conglomeration
of letters and words.
 
    I'm a hypertext freak (I even ran a hypertext computer group)
    and I have looked over most of the hypertext products out
    there.  The problem with other hypertext systems is that they
    are displaying-oriented rather than editing-oriented.  Not
    these two programs.  They rely exclusively on ASCII text, and
    are designed specifically for the EDITING and MANIPULATING of
    text rather than the fancy formatting of it, hence making
    text and reference development a breeze.  Give a MaxThinker
    and a WordPerfect user a list of a several thousand pieces of
    information to organize, and the MaxThink user will have the
    list reorganized six ways 'til Sunday before the person using
    WordPerfect has gotten halfway down the list!  I estimate
    MaxThink and Transtext cut my literary chores (writing and
    referring to computer files) at least in HALF.  For complex
    research and writing projects, and anything to do with
    brainstorming/idea generation, the time savings is much
    greater.
 
 
    MaxThink works on paragraphs.
 
        Each paragraph can have as much or as little text in it
        as you want (even zero).  You can use a paragraph to
        contain one or more bonifide paragraphs, or to hold a
        single letter, word, phrase, sentence, idea, task, line
        of data, an item from a list, a string of hyphens, or
        just about anything else.  You can move using the "topic
        pointer" which hops from paragraph to paragraph, or you
        can enter EDIT mode and move the edit cursor through the
        text as in any word processor.
 
        You can SPLIT paragraphs at will, LOCK onto and drag a
        paragraph or a marked range of them to wherever you want
        in the document, GATHER paragraphs from here or there to
        a buffer from where you can juggle, move, or copy them.
        You can interactively BINSORT paragraphs into categories,
        sending each paragraph one-at-a-time to the bin of your
        choice, where each "bin" is also a paragraph of your
        choosing and becomes the parent of each paragraph you
        decide to assign to it.  You can RANDOMIZE the order of
        paragraphs, or SORT them alphabetically from any
        specified column across the screen.  Thus, just about any
        kind of textual information can be manipulated to great
        effect, whether it be lists, lines of data, source code,
        file names, or prose, or any combination of these.
 
        You can arrange paragraphs vertically or in
        subcategorical levels (like the tree-structure of an
        outline). Subcategories are basically nothing more than
        further indented paragraphs like the one below.  You can
        drag entire sections of your knowledge tree at will to
        anywhere else in the tree, and you can collapse or
        uncollapse any part of your outline (tree) into and out
        of linear form (a single list as opposed to a tree of
        sub-lists), and display as many or as few levels at a
        time as you like.
 
            THIS "paragraph" is a "subtopic" of the one above
            (its "parent" topic), because this one is further
            indented. You may or may not view this level from the
            parent's level as you so choose (with a simple
            display toggle).  If you were to move or copy its
            parent (or the parent's parent), then this paragraph
            (and all of its offspring) would go along with it...
 
                Child.                   \
                    Grandchild.            \
                    Grandchild.              \
                        Great grandchild.      \  All these offspring would
                Child.                         /  follow too.
                Child.                       /
                    Grandchild             /
                        Etc.             /
 
        You can write, print, or view your outlines in a variety
        of formats, with or without indentation, and with margins
        and spacing between paragraphs set by you.
 
        Furthermore, you can DIVIDE paragraphs by line, sentence,
        word, or paragraph!  You can also JOIN them together,
        with the option to have the words wrapped, or you can
        leave the linefeeds in place.  You can INSERT, DELETE,
        COPY, MOVE, GET, and PUT paragraphs at the push of a
        button, to anywhere in the outline you want.  And you can
        GATHER them automatically based on their content -- for
        instance, if you want to copy or move all the paragraphs
        with the name "Marc Miller" anywhere in them.  For added
        power, most commands work in conjunction with the
        program's range MARKing feature.
 
        To traverse your knowledge-base, the paragraphs are
        optionally displayed with numbers for ease of reference.
        There is the text cursor and the topic pointer, the Jump
        command, a list of user-defined short-cut jumps (the "X"
        marks the spot command), search (and replace) keys, and
        hypertext link-outs (to move to other files).  And you
        can truncate the display of paragraphs to show only the
        first line of each one, thereby allowing you to skim
        rapidly through your documents.  As mentioned earlier,
        you may also adjust the display to show a single level of
        your paragraph tree, or multiple levels, so you don't
        have to scroll through intervening subtopics, or even
        look at them.
 
                  APPLYING MAXTHINK TO TRAVELLER
 
        Here is an example of how I've used this program to
        organize my Traveller campaign:  I read in all of the
        sector listings from sunbane as subtopics to a list of
        those sectors' names (which I copied using the macro
        command).  Each world entry in the sector data was
        treated as a seperate paragraph, and became the
        repository for any custom development I've done on that
        particular world.  E.g., all of my notes on Regina are
        placed as subtopic paragraphs created beneath the Regina
        entry in the Spinward Marches data listings.  To get to
        that custom material, I simply go down the list of worlds
        in the Spinward Marches using the Down Arrow cursor key
        (or by pushing the JUMP command and entering the
        paragraph number), then use the right arrow key to move
        to the level (indented) beneath it -- note that the next
        level down isn't seen until you go there, though you can
        toggle this feature at will.  The material beneath a
        paragraph can be contained in another file, in which
        case the right arrow key facilitates the jump to that
        file; hence you can have vast networks of interconnected
        files.
 
        One branch of my Traveller tree is devoted to the design
        of new adventures.  Each scenario under development is
        a subcategory in the outline.  The ideal Traveller
        outline would have all adventures ever published, but
        unfortunately, they are not available in magnetic media,
        for hooking files into an outline is quite easy...
 
        Paragraphs can contain DOS commands or the names of
        programs or files.  Such files can be jumped to with a
        single key, or they can be read in from or written back
        to disk with the push of an alt-key-combo, individually
        or as a marked range.  Commands or programs contained in
        paragraphs can also be executed with a single keystroke.
        Thus, you can use any document as a menu for other
        documents, or as a menu of programs or commands, or just
        for text, or any combination thereof.  Task lists take on
        a new meaning when the listed tasks double as buttons to
        start the programs needed to complete each task!  Add to
        this MaxThink's macro capability, and your paragraphs can
        fly across the screen and rapidly transform right before
        your eyes.
 
        By the way, the author of MaxThink refers to the
        paragraph-containing nodes as "topics" rather than as
        "paragraphs" as I have done.  I find the word "paragraph"
        easier for beginners to relate to.
 
The thing I like best about MaxThink is the ease by which it is
learned.  I find that even sixth-graders take to it like fish to
water, since it is an intuitive extension of their training with
writing outlines in class.  So far, I've also introduced two
veteran Dungeon Masters to the program, and now they both develop
their AD&D campaign material exclusively in MaxThink.  One of
them is running Greyhawk, and has outline branches dealing with
every political entity, monster type, and major character on the
world, while the other has all the planned events for his
Dragonlance campaign spelled out in great detail.  My own AD&D
hypernet includes a huge compilation of custom spells
(categorized by level and type) and items, and the timelines and
character "sheets" from my Greyhawk campaign.
 
My largest outline is several megs in size, includes a great many
linked outlines, and includes hypertext links to still other
files, commands, and programs.  All my outlines are connected to
a master outline from which I can access everything.
 
I run my Traveller campaign sessions with MaxThink running in 5
windows right next to me.  MaxThink contains two windows of its
own, giving me a total of 10 outlines to work with.  I use one to
display my custom designed adventure and or adventure notes,
another to show the list of topics under development (my
Traveller menu), another to record the timeline as the game is
played, and still others to:  To display the stats and
backgrounds on each of the player characters and NPC's, to look
up info on particular worlds, refer to library data entries, ship
stats, encounter charts, alien lists and briefs, and my player
questionaire (for finding out what kind of scenario they're in
the mood to play), technology lists, equipment lists, my
Traveller bibliography, and my Traveller subject index.
 
I'm currently building a library of .gif files of sci-fi, urban,
and wilderness settings to link out to from the appropriate
locations in the adventures I plan to create around them -- I'll
simply turn the computer screen and let the players feast their
eyes.  In addition to the link-outs to .gif files, I'll also
imbed page references to particular illustrations in my Traveller
collection.  My Traveller hypernet has grown to include several
hundred files, all linked together via MaxThink, and accessible
from any of the 10 windows I use.
 
If I had to describe Maxthink in a single phrase, that phrase
would be "raw editing and accessing power".  Can you tell I'm
addicted?
 
 
Transtext is a quick-and-dirty hypertext word processor, which
works quite well with MaxThink, and can execute the same jump
outs as MaxThink can.
 
My hypernet of outlines and files contains all my written
projects and hobbies, including all the material for my Traveller
campaign, with links to all the magnetic media (TML buns, Sunbane
files, and HIWG Docs) I've collected relating to Traveller.  All
without messing up the source files themselves.
 
Now back to you, Matt...
 
 >I have started with the Amber Zones from the JoTAS and I'll be
 >going from there.
 
STOP!
 
I'm already working on a comprehensive index, which contains
everything you've mentioned above (try and guess what program I'm
using to build it).  I've found this necessary because of the
immensity of my Traveller collection (now containing 500+ items),
and the incredible difficulty I've had in finding bits of
information within its 15,000+ pages.  Too bad it isn't all
available in MaxThink format.  My guidebook currently has:
 
    1)  The most comprehensive product and periodical listings of
        Traveller-related materials ever compiled.
 
    2)  A growing bibilography currently listing over 950
        articles written for Traveller.
 
    3)  A growing index currently spanning more than 50
        Traveller-containing publications, divided by major
        subject category, for quickly locating the page reference
        of all significant information on any piece of equipment,
        any career, starship, animal, alien, sector, subsector,
        world, company, NPC, news item, etc. covered in the
        included publications.
 
    4)  A chapter of tips for Traveller collectors.
 
Perhaps we can combine our efforts.  If I get it finished during
my lifetime (doesn't SEEM likely), I plan to publish it.  Anyone
who assists me will receive the latest prepublication version of
the guide.  Lets talk.
 
Cheers,
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7103
Subject: 70:20/7089 ftp by mail
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 16:46:00 -0500

Subject: 70:20/7089 ftp by mail

 ::>Subject: ftpmail


T::>BTW, travellypeeps,

T::>Does anyone know if you can ftpmail from ftp.engrg.uwo.ca?

T::>I.e. would :

T::>To:   ftpmail@ftp.engrg.uwo.ca

 Try

 To: ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com

T::>content:

T::>reply-to: james@uk.co.camscan
 ::>open

 change this line to

 connect ftp.engrg.uwo.ca anonymous james@uk.co.camscan

 ::>cd pub/traveller
 ::>get....
 ::> .
 ::> .
 ::> .
 ::>close

 use "quit" instead.
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ Middle age: When your age starts showing at your middle!

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7104
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 14:22:04 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Regency discussion group

 
Dear James,
 
I was wondering how the TML and the TNE-pocket were formed.
Would it be difficult for someone (such as myself) to administer
another discussion group, say, one on the Regency?
 
Sincerely,
Rodge.
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Dear TML'ers,
 
Would any of you TML'ers be interested in having access to such
an area?
 
Who wants a discussion area on the Regency?
 
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7105
Subject: TNE:What Does the Future
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 17:26:00 -0500

Subject: TNE:What Does the Future Hold?

  Path of Tears (an excellent RC sourcebook, in my opinion) gives
  us a look at some of the psychology that drives the Reformation 
  Coalition, and a glimpse of the kind of interstellar state that 
  they (and presumably the Hivers) want.  The information that we 
  have on the Regency, though scantier, implies that the Regency 
  will be fundamentally based on the old Third Imperium model, with 
  some modifications.  I see a conflict of fundamental ideas 
  coming.

  The 3I (Third Imperium) model was one in which planets were 
  allowed to have whatever kind of government and social system 
  they desired, subject to only loose constraints (no slavery, no 
  nukes, honor extrality...).  Additionally, Imperial interference 
  in internal matters (revolutions, coups, etc.) was (at least 
  theoretically) nil.  The RC model appears to be strongly 
  anti-theocracy and anti-despotism, and aiding one side or another 
  in a local conflict appears not to be \mallum in se\.

  What will happen when these two states (the Regency and the RC) 
  come into contact, as they inevitably will?

  One problem that the RC is experiencing, and will probably 
  continue to experience for a long time to come, is the need for 
  high technology, without having the technological and industrial 
  base to meet those needs.  They will aid lower tech planets in 
  "seeding" a technological/industrial base, but it is simply not 
  possible to force-grow such a base beyond the current sustainable 
  technology level - a thorough understanding of one level of 
  technology and a strong industrial base built on that level are 
  required before it is possible to build into the next technology 
  level.  As planetary populations grow, and centers of learning 
  and industry develop, the sustainable technology level will rise.  
  The likely result of this is a RC with a high-tech center, with 
  the tech level gradually tapering off proportional to distance 
  from Aubaine.  This will lead to a situation much like we see on 
  Terra today, with over-industrialized nations experiencing 
  economic problems due to commodity manufacturing being done 
  "offshore," and in those "offshore" planets, a great deal of 
  exploitation of resources, including human resources, and a 
  generally lower (possibly much lower) standard of living.  
  Incorporation by the RC of active high-tech cultures will only 
  minimally alleviate this problem, providing small local regions 
  with higher standards of living.  However, these cultures, once 
  admitted to the RC, will almost certainly have their economies 
  and manufacturing bases distorted by a need to "feed" the central 
  areas of the RC.  Assuming freedom of travel from one world to 
  another, we're looking at the ghettoization of space, with all of 
  its attendant problems (again, look at present-day Terra for 
  examples of what can happen).

  The Regency will also have the same kind of high-tech center, 
  because the center did not lose the technology in the first 
  place.  However, the Regency will have access to the Jumpstart 
  caches, which will allow a more even development of the 
  technological and industrial base - or, the Regency can do 
  nothing, and allow the reintegrated areas to develop on their 
  own.  In either case, the Regency is likely to have less of a 
  ghettoization problem, as they have no need to scavenge high 
  technology, and their expansion is not driven by a need to import 
  from an external market.  High tech centers will develop, but not 
  in such a way that they will be driven to focus on serving the 
  needs of an already extant high-tech area.

  Does the RC know that the Regency and the other Spinward states 
  exist?  Do the Hivers?  Does the Regency know about the survival 
  of the Hive Federation?  About the RC?

  At this point in time, we must assume that the answer to all of 
  these questions is "no" and that both the Regency and the RC will 
  develop in their own way, until they meet.  That meeting is 
  likely to occur due to both states attempting to integrate or 
  build forward bases on the same planet.  With such a fundamental 
  difference in outlook, we can expect to see armed conflicts, as 
  the Regency tries to prevent undue interference in the internal 
  affairs of a client or member state, while the RC is trying to 
  mold the state into what they feel is an "appropriate" shape for 
  membership.  Add to this mixture the Guild, which will try to 
  keep both interstellar states out of the picture, and I think 
  we're going to see the (N+1)th Interstellar Wars/Pacification 
  Wars/Wars of Integration/Coalition Wars/Regency Wars/Guild Wars.

  Comments?
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ Entropy requires no maintenance

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7106
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 02:44 BST-1
From: Mark Watson <watsonm@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7091-7096 V71#1
Reply-To: watsonm@cix.compulink.co.uk


In-Reply-To: <9403300132.AA06302@engrg.uwo.ca>
Linguistics and the Collapse:
James says:
> I believe most US people would not deny that the British speak 
> "proper" English. Retentively prim & proper, to be precise. Unless 
> you're from Liverpool.

(I assume by "retentively" you mean we retain the correct spellings) 

I think what we have to distinguish here are dialect, accent and idiom.

Dialects are different versions of the same language, which are 
different enough to have, for example, variant grammatical rules and 
vocabularies. I read somewhere that England has over 50 mutually 
incomprehensible dialects, whereas the US has about 3 (can't remember 
the exact numbers, but it is of those proportions). Which shows that 
geographical spread is not so much a factor as history and technology.

Accents are different ways of pronouncing the same words, and 
combinations of words. Liverpudlian is an accent, and in turn includes 
several sub-accents depending on where in Liverpool you may be (again, 
I suspect the degree of geographic variation is higher than in the US). 
The "prim & proper" way of speaking is referred to here as "received 
pronunciation", or maybe "BBC English". Note that the Royal Family 
don't use it; they seem to use a 1940s variant no-one else uses (Prince 
Philip is of course Greek, so I suppose he has an excuse). Received 
pronunciation is really South East England middle class English. The 
other classes in the South East use variants (for example, cockney, or 
the increasingly fashionable Thames Estuary variant). Other regions 
have their own variants, and the middle classes there speak versions of 
received pronunciation tinged with the local accent (in my case, North 
Yorkshire). By the way, my parents and grandparents can/could 
distinguish village origin on the basis of accent, that's 3 miles 
difference.

Idioms, or slang, are variant ways of saying specific things. 
Realistically, you couldn't go through your whole life talking this 
way, and speakers could probably drop pretty easily back into the 
general swing of things without really trying very hard. Usually you 
would associate such talk with a specialist sub-group (programmers, 
teenagers, Grateful Dead fans, etc). OF course, regions associated with 
accents would probably have a tendency to use idiom, eg cockney rhyming 
slang, or Texas cowboy references.

Now, applying this to Traveller:

Firstly, the only thing to have developed during the collapse would be 
idiom, given the timescales involved. And that would be mostly morbid 
humour, given the circumstances (eg virus-head). Some is likely to be 
the result of generational cultural changes (ie teenage slang). I doubt 
though that most planets are sustaining the degree of variation we see 
today, mainly because our late 20th Century culture is more buoyant (by 
analogy, how strong is the Bosnian pop scene?).

In the pre-collapse Imperium, I would guess that most planets have 
their own accent, and a strong degree of idiom based on planetary 
background (eg on a waterworld there would be a lot of water based 
references). In most cases, planet wide (even intra system) variation 
would tend to be low, but the nature of Traveller inter-system 
communications is such that the differences *between* planets should be 
fairly high.

Dialectical differences are likely to be as a result of hybrid Solomani 
and minor human (or vocally compatible non-human) populations, and 
would be relatively few and far between (or at least mutually 
incomprehensible dialects). Most such differences would have been wiped 
out for practical purposes by trade and communications requirements. 
The Imperial culture is pretty invasive, probably to an even greater 
extent than Anglo-Saxon (mainly American) culture is beginning to 
invade other cultures. 

However, you might get some mileage out of having NPCs speak Yoda 
fashion and claiming that the NPC was speaking GalAnglic using Vilani 
sentence construction, in the same way that the Germans always put the 
verb at the end of the clause. Also remember that in Solomani space 
some populations are commited to derivations of languages other than 
English.

Another trick to look at is to generate non-galanglic words, for 
example Vargr, and then try and figure out how they would look after 
500 or so years of absorption into English. The longer words would 
shorten, and any even slightly difficult pronunciations would be 
smoothed. Then rewrite the word with a phonetic spelling. A useful 
model to look at would be Burgess' book "the Clockword Orange", where 
the teenage yobbo slang is derived from Russian. 

Alternatively, the upper classes might be tempted to using pretentious 
First Empire words and phrases based on Vilani (as we have in English 
phrases such as savoir-faire), so pick up a few Vilani phrases for the 
Imperial Court.

Finally, remember that mobility is the great leveller: characters who 
have joined the Imperial services, both civil and military, or who have 
served in interstellar trade, are likely to speak the equivalent of 
received pronunciation, albeit with a tinge of their homeworld. Media 
personnel are likely to have the ability to speak clear received 
GalAnglic as a prerequisite for their job, and the starports are pretty 
likely to be fairly homogenous.

Cheers
Mark Watson

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7107
From: leodlion@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:02:18 EST
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7091-70...

Please remove me from your list, thank you.


JK

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7108
Subject: Re: Meson Pistols
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 19:23:30 -0800
From: George Herbert <gwh@crl.com>


[body pistol]
>DV of 1 (personnel damage that is) up to a range of 80 km.
>[...]
>Radiation Damage:  Well, even for a 100 Kg human, this dose is a
>bit above LD50/60.  We are in the range of Acute Radiation Syndrome
>with gastrointestinal complications within 2 weeks, bleeding and
>death in most exposed persons.
>
>To be fair, tho, I have gone off the scale cost wise.  But even if
>we multiply the cost of a tunnel and explosive power generator by
>a factor of a thousand, the tunnel would cost 20 cr, and the EPG
>would be 330 Cr.  This would of course be less at higher Tech
>Levels.

[smg]
>I figure that a rate of fire of 10 per second is pretty dang close
>to a continuous beam for aiming purposes.  And of course no recoil
>either.
>
>DV of 1 (personelle damage that is) up to a range of 80 km.

Thank you, you've created my Gaming Headache for the Day.

Cover?  What Cover?  Oh, he's hiding behind the bulkhead...
heh heh heh ZOT heh Thud

I think we'd better introduce some scaling rules which say
"You can't do that" or we've killed personal combat game
balance 8-)


- -george

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7109
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 22:10:07 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 3

Gentlesophonts:

rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) asks:
  
> Who wants a discussion area on the Regency?

I do, for one - but why not just do it on TML?


jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) writes:
 
>   the psychology that drives the Reformation 
>   Coalition, and a glimpse of the kind of interstellar state that 
>   they (and presumably the Hivers) want.

What's the deal with the Hivers?  Where do they fit in with the RC?

>   The information that we 
>   have on the Regency, though scantier, implies that the Regency 
>   will be fundamentally based on the old Third Imperium model, with 
>   some modifications.

Probably.  Hasn't it already been suggested that the Regency is somewhat more
`democratic' (whatever that means) than the Imperium?  But I would expect this
impression to be `altered' by a Regency sourcebook in a fashion similar to the
way the `star viking' impressions of the RC were altered by *Path of Tears*.
 
>   This will lead to a situation much like we see on 
>   Terra today

I'm not so sure.  Remember that high technology is basically a Western cultural
tradition - other areas of Earth have different traditions that have not led
to the development of high technology.  Now, admittedly, some of this is
due to the advantage in ability to access and exploit resources that early
industrialization has given the West but nevertheless the West enjoys certain
cultural traditions that facilitate high technology.  Look at the efforts
to develop legal structures in the former Soviet states that reduce the risks
to investment necessary for high-tech endeavors.

(I'm not trying to suggest that Western culture is somehow `better' than other
cultures, merely that is is better suited to the practice of technology - that
`technology' is part of the Western cultural tradition.  Whether that is a
`good thing' or not remains to be seen.)

Such will not be the case in the worlds that are `integrated' into the RC.
All former Imperial worlds, to a certain extent, will enjoy a `technological'
cultural tradition.  They will not face many of the obstacles to technological
development faced by non-Western cultures on Earth.
  
>   we're looking at the ghettoization of space, with all of 
>   its attendant problems (again, look at present-day Terra for 
>   examples of what can happen).

Not necessarily.  Had TNE occurred several hundred years after the Rebellion
maybe the technological traditions of the Imperium would have been lost but
in just seventy years, or even 150 if it takes the RC that long to expand a
great deal, those traditions will still exist.  Look at the Renaissance of
Western Culture after the Dark Ages - much of what had been done in the 
Classical Era was quickly reincorporated into the culture.

>   However, the Regency will have access to the Jumpstart 
>   caches

Jumpstart caches?
 
>   we're going to see the (N+1)th Interstellar Wars/Pacification 
>   Wars/Wars of Integration/Coalition Wars/Regency Wars/Guild Wars.

Of course we are.  :-)

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7110
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 20:45:49 -0800
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Open Letter to Loren Wiseman

 
Not too long ago, I posted a "Traveller's Wish List" of fanciful
items that we can only dream about.  It was intended as satire,
but was taken seriously by Loren Wiseman.  It has taken awhile
for me to digest his comments...
 
 
  > The main difficulty with doing comprehensive indices or
  > bibliographies or consolidations of deckplans/equipment/etc. is
  > that they are obsolete almost as soon as they printed (unless we
  > publish them and then never print anything else).
 
I don't see how this is relevant.  It would never be obsolete for
the material it covered -- and there's a heck of a lot of
material out there.  For instance, I still find the JTAS index by
Brian Sarver quite useful, and would not consider it obsolete.
 
Most Traveller refs are limping along with their own memories as
the main tool for finding particular references in the vast
amounts of material that have been written.  The only relevant
questions in my mind are whether or not there is a market for such
a reference aid, and whether or not it would be worth the effort?
 
  > > P.S.:  They don't have anything on the above list available
  > > do they?
 
  > Nope. I'm looking at indexing TNE for in-office use (and if I
  > ever do it I'll put it in Challenge), but there never seems to be
  > any time for projects such as this...always something more
  > important staring me in the face.
 
Interesting.  Would you have to do the thing yourself?  Why not
hire the job done?  What would such an index be worth to you?
 
There are probably several TML'ers (myself included) who could
probably be induced to take on such a project, and who would do
an excellent job of it as well.
 
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 566
Archive-Message-Number: 7111
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 23:56:17 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Regency discussion group


rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) writes:
> I was wondering how the TML and the TNE-pocket were formed.
> Would it be difficult for someone (such as myself) to administer
> another discussion group, say, one on the Regency?

Although I realize that you question was directed at James (and I don't know
how TML was formed, since I haven't been here that long), I can answer about
TNE-Pocket and GDW-Beta.

In the case of TNE-Pocket, the list has its origins in the complaining,
moaning, and wild speculation that went on here on the TML during the months
leading up to the publication of Survival Margin and then Traveller: The New
Era.  An interesting discussion had just finished, where the members of the
TML all pitched in a collective effort to detail a sector.  Then a new round
of (mostly pointless) discussion about the shape of the New Era arose.

At some point, the New Era and the subsector detailing project merged in my
brain, and I suggested that interested members of the TML join in detailing
an area of space in the New Era - a Traveller: New Era Pocket Empire. 
George W. Herbert graciously offered to administer a mail reflector and
archive site out at ocf.berkeley.edu, and the rest is history.

I believe this all happened during a short period when the TML was down for
one reason or another.  The discussion was carried on "TML - Not!", and
should be in the TML-Not archives on sunbane.  One of the major reasons for
taking that discussion off of the TML was that it quickly turned to subjects
that weren't relevant to the TML as a whole - the Traveller equivalent of
"how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" (how many starships does
the Gralyn Union have in 1200, for example).


There is one other active Traveller discussion group, GDW-Beta.  This group
was originally formed by invitation to playtest and check Fire, Fusion, and
Steel prior to its publication.  In this case, the size of the group was
limited both at GDW's request and fit the group's planned activities.  That
initial function done, the group has generally settled into a rules and
design sequence discussion.

Because GDW-Beta operates off of my work site, I'm reluctant to expand the
membership greatly.  However, I have thought of a way that GDW-Beta can be
of more help the the TML community in general.  If you have a rules
question, send a copy of it to GDW-Beta@quark.qrc.com and all of us on the
list will see it.  There's a good chance that some one of us knows or can
get the answer, and we'll get it back to you.


> Would any of you TML'ers be interested in having access to such
> an area?  Who wants a discussion area on the Regency?

Having been the instigator at least partly responsible for two discussion
gruops, I'm hardly the person to tell you "No" (and the Internet being what
it is, I certainly can't stop you).

However, I do suggest that a debate on the nature and structure of the
Regency is well within the TML's scope and charter, and is probably of
interest to the majority of the members of TML.  If it gets to the point
where Regency-related traffic threatens to swamp the TML, you can always
take it off to a separate discussion group at that time.

So, in short, my response is "Yes, let's talk about the Regency" and "No, we
don't need a special-interest group to do that, the TML is fine for now".


wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #567: Msgs 7112-7126 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Apr  3 22:00:01 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #567: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 567  7112 30-Mar-1994 Juanna Napp      Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7067-7075 V70#18 
 567  7114 31-Mar-1994 Sebastien PERKI  Game Aids << I saw that somebody was in
 567  7115 31-Mar-1994 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7081-7096 V42#10
 567  7116 31-Mar-1994 Christofer Bert  Re: Traveller Background 2 << David Joh
 567  7117 31-Mar-1994 James Dening     Re: ftpmail << re : James Perkins
 567  7118 31-Mar-1994 AFP123@BANGOR.A  Goodbye <<  Well, it comes to us all, t
 567  7119 31-Mar-1994 johnps1010@aol.  Hi <<  I have been watching this newsle
 567  7120 31-Mar-1994 Ray_Pullar       Re: The RC government << David Johnson:
 567  7121 31-Mar-1994 Ray_Pullar       Regency vs. RC << Jeff Zaitlin:
 567  7122 31-Mar-1994 Peter H. Brento  Alternate Discussion Groups << Alternat
 567  7123 31-Mar-1994 chiggin@aol.com  RC and Political Theory << David Johnso
 567  7124 31-Mar-1994 chiggin@aol.com  TML musings << fok@scf.usc.edu sez:
 567  7125 31-Mar-1994 Mark Cook        Designing Deckplans... << In TML Msg. N
 567  7126 31-Mar-1994 Roger Myhre      Regency                   << rodge@cybe

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7112
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 21:12:18 -0800
From: helm@geology.ucdavis.edu (Juanna Napp)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7067-7075 V70#18

from Dane's post (TML nightly: Msgs 7067-7075 V70#18)

> -- To 'accurately' follow the TNE
>continuity will require several 'interlocking' sourcebooks so that we
>can see the whole picture.  Unfortunately, for those of us unhappy with
>the region of focus at the moment, we are forced to develop our own
>information in the almost certain knowledge that our carefully
>rationalized explanations will probably not jibe with later published
>materials.
>......................<etc etc etc>
>Dane

Nor is this the first time that this has happened with Traveller
venues.  Jim Kelleher (a bay area ref & gamer) generated a character
back in the legendary era of CT, long long ago in the mists of time
(Am I dating you, Jim?) which rolled up, by the then-rules, as
the Countess of Regina.  This causes some small amount of
consternation when later CT/MT materials presented Norris as
the Duke of Regina.  Jim's character is still in play and people who
play in Jim's campaigns cope.  Background is often as pliable as the
rules are...

with regards to:

>TML nightly: Msgs 7076-7080 V70#19
>Is this sort of like letting Exxon or Alcoa come into your country to help
>you develop?  (Or William Penn buying Manhattan for a handfull of beads?)
>Doesn't sound too benevolent to me.
>David Johnson

and also to:

>As for Exxon and Alco coming in. . .the analogy may be valid. Better
>yet, the Penn/Beads deal. AS history has shown, they have their good and
>bad sides. :)
>J Roberson

Uh, er...guys...it was the Dutch who traded 24 Tollars worth of junk 
jewellry to the Iraquois for the rights to the island of Mahattan,
in 1625.  William Penn was granted, by the English Crown, the new 
world colony of Pennsylvania, mostly to get those troublesome Quakers
to move out of England.  Pennsylvania was officially settled in 1682.

Incidentally, the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam had reasonably
good relations with the local Iraquois, much better than the English
colonists who took rather than bargained for land.  The Quakers and
other settlers in Pennsylvania, being takers of rather than bargainers
for land, had a fairly rough time with the natives...  Penn had this
silly idea that the natives could be converted into peaceful co-habitors
of the colony...  

In terms of analogies, I would opine that Exxon, Alco, and the mercantile
17th century Dutch are a much happier alternative to the English
Colonists, who were nothing better than opportunistic conquerers.
And while I'm thinking about it, the Journals of Lewis and Clarke would
make excellent background material for an IISS or RCES or generic
exploration campaign.  (What?  _NOT_ read the journals of Lewis and
Clarke?!?  They're better than most modern sci fi...)

Catie Helm (21 days until PhD orals...but who's counting?)
- ------------------------------
Catie Helm              lab:(916)752-3672
Stable Isotope Lab, Geology Dept, UC Davis
Geology Department Seminar Coordinator
helm@geology.ucdavis.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7113
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 08:55:04 +0200
From: perkins@ensinfo.uvsq.fr (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: Thruster Plates



------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7114
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 08:57:47 +0200
From: perkins@ensinfo.uvsq.fr (Sebastien PERKINS)
Subject: Game Aids

I saw that somebody was intersted about exchanging game-aids on the mailing list (adventure ideas, ships .....) 

GOOD IDEA let's all put at least one adventure nugget on the system !

i'm on, i'll try and send some ideas soon, 

seb


------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7115
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 02:36:44 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7081-7096 V42#10

>From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>

>Has anyone tried to use one of these home floorplan design programs to do 
>deckplans?  I am considering laying out the $40-60 on such a product for just
>such a purpose and would like a reccomendation.
	I once played with the idea. Unfortunately layout out a 200t startship
is tantamout to layout out a three story house. It's a lot of work. Sketching
it is much, much, faster.
	Having been frustrated with this I started writing a program to convert
standard (Mega)Traveller ship design sheets (e.g. rsdean's impressive library)
into floorplans. Time prevented me finishing this.
	If there are any skilled C (C++ would make certain aspects easier)
programmers out there who would like to give it a go I'd be more than happy
to explain the necessary algorithyms in detail...
					Jo

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7116
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 00:50:38 -0800
From: chrisber@netcom.com (Christofer Bertani)
Subject: Re: Traveller Background 2

David Johnson writes:
> Un uh.  Look at the former Soviet states.  They have no tradition whatsoever
> of democractic principles.  The current Russian legislture, the Duma, is
> named for the *first* legislative advisory body established by the tsars,
> who were autocrats, which didn't have the clout of the British Parliament
> in Oliver Cromwell's day.  Democratic principles in Western European society
> go back hundreds of years and yet just two generations ago we were still
> *lynching* folks to keep them from voting here in the US!  The Imperium,
> whose roots were in yet another `empire', has been around for 1100 years.
> So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
> `Peter Plutocrat' come from?

	Hivers?

	Chris Bertani		chrisber@alumni.cco.caltech.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7117
From: James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 10:01:07 BST
Subject: Re: ftpmail



re : James Perkins

>> Uh-uh. Nope. Nada. No.

Come on James, spit it out. Stop beating around the bush and tell me what
you *really* mean!

Thanks,

James.

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7118
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:07 GMT
From: AFP123@BANGOR.AC.UK
Subject: Goodbye


	Well, it comes to us all, the termination of one's
computer account. I hope to be back soon if I can fasttalk the
University authorites, but until then could you please remove me
from the list.
	Until I return, whether you're playing CT,MT,TNE, T&T, D&D
or just Scrabble, enjoy yourselves!

	Stewart Johnson

	Don't take life seriously - you'll never get out alive

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7119
From: johnps1010@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 07:35:00 EST
Subject: Hi

	I have been watching this newsletter for about two weeks.  I wanted to see
the attitude and quality of the submissions.  So far I am not disappointed.
	After cutting through the complaints about TNE over CT and MT, I can see
that most people are at least dedicated and passionate toward the system. 
This leads to longevity.  With longevity there must be change.
	The Imperium lasted for 1100 years more or less.  A pretty good run, if you
ask me.  But change must come.  Sometimes it more drastic than others.  Many
Empires have risen and fallen in the past with little to major effects.
	My point is, I like the TNE background.  I like the different form of story
telling as well.  What I mean is that, some of the old stuff reads more like
a text book than an adventure.  Quite frankly it was getting a little boring.
	I hadn't planned on using the Star Viking setting, but the material is
definitely worth having.  I am going to set up a fledgling pocket empire.  As
the characters arrive in system this single system is on the verge of
expanding.  A mother virus is in control of the more advanced group and the
evil God Virus is the arch enemy.  I think they will like it, and if anyone
has any helpful hints as to adventure seeds I'll gladly look at them.

	The New Solimani Empire Dawns

	John

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7120
From: Ray_Pullar <csh019@cch.coventry.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The RC government
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 15:35:32 WET DST

David Johnson:
> Yes, but the federal government has specific powers granted to it by the
> Constitution - particularly taxation and a military; they're *not* `granted'
> by the individual States.  A better example would be the European Union, which
> has no powers except those granted by the member nations.  And excuse me if I
> offend some European sensibilities, but, from this side of the Pond, it
> looks pretty fragmented.
> 

Don't worry, from this side it looks pretty fragmented too.  I think
that the European Union is going through the trauma of birth at the moment
and that once this has passed it will become a far more cohesive
entity.  To compare it with the U.S. of today is a little unfair - the U.S.
has had it's federal system for almost 300 years!  And it has gone through
its' own share of trauma's such as the Civil War.  I also thought that the
original 13 colonies that founded the U.S. had to ratify the Constitution.
Their representatives all met to write it and then the state assemblies
approved it.  Only once this had happened did it become binding (please
feel free to correct me - my knowledge of American history is shakey).
The Civil War itself was an argument (conducted with cannons) about the
authority of the federal government over the individual member states.
In Europe, we've just gone through a similar process with The Treaty
of Maastricht which defines the powers of the European government.
Arguments about the extent of the powers of the new government are
still continuing even though the treaty has been ratified.  But I
expect that 300 years from now, the European Union will be much more
united than it is now.

So I think it's fair to say that the RC government is in the same
position as the U.S. federal government just after the Revolution.
Things are still up in the air as to the final form of the Constitution
and the shape of the government.  And that is how it is described in
Path of Tears.

David Johnson:
> Well, actually, there's Africa, South Asia, Latin America, Central Asia.
> Eastern Europe, *North* America.  I can't seem to bring to mind *anyplace*
> where the locals are glad they were overrun by the `benevolent civilizers'.
> 

True, but then it was just as true of the Third Imperium.  How many worlds
that were 'invited' to join the Third Imperium really wanted to?  The
discontent of the member worlds of the Imperium didn't seem to pose any
threat to its' survival - why should it threaten the RC?

David Johnson:
> So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
> `Peter Plutocrat' come from?

Uh...books?

David Johnson:
> May be, but the Star Vikings, at least as they've been described, don't
> seem to be interested in markets at all.  I again refer y'all to Beam's
> novel.  Lucas Trask, the Space Viking of the title, was one of the few to
> realize that he'd be better off `trading' with the worlds of the `wilds' than
> he'd be `chicken stealing'.  It's kind of like that story about teaching the
> starving man how to fish; and yet the Star Vikings who are `recovering' lost
> technology are still looking for that free hand out.
> 

Your view of the RC suffers from the fact that you haven't read Path of Tears.
They don't just engage in 'chicken stealing'.  As Allen has already stated
the RC don't steal high-tech gear off people who are using it correctly i.e.
for benevolent purposes (such as keeping their communities alive).  They
do steal it off people who are using it incorrectly i.e. oppressing their
communities.  Plus the RC also puts back - it doesn't just take.  It supplies
technical knowledge, trained personnel and tools to help people reconstruct.
This doesn't sound like 'chicken stealing' to me.

David Johnson:
> The key point to remember is that with a strong, central government the RC is
> either going to be `altruisitc developers' or `chicken stealers' - there's
> no room for both.
> 

Hmm...the U.S. donates millions of dollars in aid to Third World development
programs *and* it invades and occupies small Third World nation states like
Vietnam, Granada and Panama.  Is the U.S. government an 'altruistic
developer', a 'chicken stealer' or both?


------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7121
From: Ray_Pullar <csh019@cch.coventry.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 16:23:08 +0100
Subject: Regency vs. RC

Jeff Zaitlin:
  The Regency will also have the same kind of high-tech center, 
  because the center did not lose the technology in the first 
  place.  However, the Regency will have access to the Jumpstart 
  caches, which will allow a more even development of the 
  technological and industrial base - or, the Regency can do 
  nothing, and allow the reintegrated areas to develop on their 
  own.  In either case, the Regency is likely to have less of a 
  ghettoization problem, as they have no need to scavenge high 
  technology, and their expansion is not driven by a need to import 
  from an external market.  High tech centers will develop, but not 
  in such a way that they will be driven to focus on serving the 
  needs of an already extant high-tech area.

What amazes me is the fact that the Regency isn't already expanding
into Deneb and Corridor at a furious rate (or indeed, into Verge
via the Jump-5 route across the Great Rift).  Either the Regency
still fears Zhodani betrayal or a war with the Aslan colonies while
its' efforts are concentrated on rebuilding its trailing worlds or
it still believes there to be a strong threat from the Virus.  But
since the Virus (except for a few pockets here and there) has
largely disappeared there is nothing to stop it.  And with the
Regency's industrial base largely intact it should be able to
expand very rapidly.  Frankly, in a contest between the Regency
and the RC I don't see how the RC could win.  They are just too
small.  Which means that GDW must be planning on keeping the
Regency within its' existing boundaries for some time to come (to
give the RC time to catch up).  I don't personally find this credible.

Jeff Zaitlin:
  Does the RC know that the Regency and the other Spinward states 
  exist?  Do the Hivers?  Does the Regency know about the survival 
  of the Hive Federation?  About the RC?

What about the K'kree?  They've always been (pardon the pun) the
dark horses of the Traveller universe.  Could they make a bid
for increased living room (bigger, brighter pastures await you
in the ruins of the former Third Imperium).  But mabye they just
live too far away...

Jeff Zaitlin:
  At this point in time, we must assume that the answer to all of 
  these questions is "no" and that both the Regency and the RC will 
  develop in their own way, until they meet.  That meeting is 
  likely to occur due to both states attempting to integrate or 
  build forward bases on the same planet.  With such a fundamental 
  difference in outlook, we can expect to see armed conflicts, as 
  the Regency tries to prevent undue interference in the internal 
  affairs of a client or member state, while the RC is trying to 
  mold the state into what they feel is an "appropriate" shape for 
  membership.  Add to this mixture the Guild, which will try to 
  keep both interstellar states out of the picture, and I think 
  we're going to see the (N+1)th Interstellar Wars/Pacification 
  Wars/Wars of Integration/Coalition Wars/Regency Wars/Guild Wars.

This depends very much on any future political change within the
Regency.  It has already moved towards a more democratic system.
It's connection to the Third Imperium will taint it in the eyes
of most RCers but then, we can't all be perfect.  The RCer may
consider the Imperium to have been immoral in some of its' 
practices but I don't think that they place it at the same level
as your average TED (basically what the Imps would have called a
barbarian with nukes).  The Imperium, whatever its' faults, was
civilised.

I'm not sure from reading Path of Tears to what extent the RC
tries to force a One True Way on the worlds it integrates.  The
Federalist faction seems to believe in promoting diversity of
cultures/political systems within the Coalition while the
Feudal Technocrats seem to want to squeeze everyone they re-contact
into their mould.  At the moment there is no clear indication which
faction will come to dominate the Coalition.  The RC is definitely
opposed to any government/society which routinely tortures, murders,
enslaves and otherwise oppresses its' citizens on a daily basis or
which regards outsiders as 'the enemy' or technology as 'evil'. I
think that a lot of the people in the Regency would also agree
with that.  It still leaves a lot of room for different kinds of
government.  I think that the RCers think that the attitude of
the Third Imperium towards its' member worlds was 'so long as
you pay your taxes, we don't care what you do to your people' or
'he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard'.  This kind of laissez-
faire, amoral attitude is definitely out the window.

As far as the Guild is concerned, while it has high ambitions to 
dominate interstellar space I think that it lacks the organisational
structure to do so, and that faced with an opponent like the Regency
it will quickly be removed as a power.  I think that it poses more of
a threat to the RC because the RC doesn't have the kind of resources
at its' disposal that the Regency has, and is spread much more thinly.
I expect the RC to dispose of the Guild in the next 10 years (unless
the Guild changes its' structure and becomes much more like a 
government).

The next big plot development we can expect to see concerns the
Black Curtain.  Path of Tears mentions the "Vampire Highway" that
leads into the Core of the former Imperium (straight to the centre
of Lucan's territory).  Obviously the Virus has been busily at work
there for the last 70 years building...something.  No doubt that
something will be unleashed on an unsuspecting Universe in the near
future.  I would expect the RC and the Regency to put aside their
differences and fight this common enemy (anyone remember Fred
Saberhagen's Berserkers?).





*****************************************************************************
* Ray Pullar   csh019@cov.ac.uk                                             *
* "Quantum mechanics?  Even I don't fully understand it." - Ian Sales       *
*****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7122
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 10:23:13 CST
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Alternate Discussion Groups

Alternate discussion groups (such as one on the Regency suggested by
Rodge) although an intriguing idea, do not seem necessary to me.

I would be interested in joining such a group, but I would be more
interested in reading the posts here.  It's not like this list is too 
long to read through.  Why start a serperate list?

just my CR 0.02

Pete

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7123
From: chiggin@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:42:25 EST
Subject: RC and Political Theory

David Johnson sez:
- ----------------------------
> their success, and like it or not, they *are* bringing order to their patch
> of space - 200 years down the road, many of the conquered planets will be
> *happy* to be RCES members
> Of course, there's always Quebec :)

Well, actually, there's Africa, South Asia, Latin America, Central Asia.
Eastern Europe, *North* America.  I can't seem to bring to mind *anyplace*
where the locals are glad they were overrun by the `benevolent civilizers'.
- ----------------------------
Cynthia:
    I can..  look further back in time.  Most of Rome's possessions
were proud of their Romanized culture and of the protection of the
legions...  AFTER a few centuries of Romanization.  (Right after the
Romans conquered them, they weren't too thrilled about it...  remember
Boudicca's rebellion?  Vercingetorix?)  The Romanized Celts of Britain
and Gaul were very unhappy to lose the protection of the legions as
the Empire collapsed.  The cases you cite are all relatively modern,
and had only a century, at most, to be assimulated by the invading
culture.  And note that both Latin America and Africa have been glad
to keep the *religions* of their invaders (Roman Catholicism in Latin
America, Islam in much of Africa).  Come to think of it, most of the
areas of Africa and Central Asia that were overrun by the "benevolent
civilizers" spreading the word of Allah from Arabia are glad they were
overrun by the followers of Mohammed (peace be upon him) -- again,
after a few centuries of assimulation.

     BTW, an interesting reversal is what happened in China
repeatedly...  barbarians invaded and conquered, and were so taken by
the advanced culture and high standard of living of the Chinese, that
they, the conquerors, were assimulated by the Chinese.  (Barbarians
glad they overran the 'benevolent civilizers'?)  Hmmm...  wonder if
this could happen when the RCES hit the Regency?

David Johnson sez:
- --------------------------------------------
> by joing together, forming a - what's that wored? ahhh, COALITION! They
would
> then be democratic for a time

Democratic principles in Western European society
go back hundreds of years and yet just two generations ago we were still
*lynching* folks to keep them from voting here in the US!  The Imperium,
whose roots were in yet another `empire', has been around for 1100 years.
So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
`Peter Plutocrat' come from?
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Cynthia:
    Roman Republic, c.500 B.C.  Athens, c.700 B.C. (my dates on
classical Greek civilization are fuzzy)  Anglo-Saxon and Scandanavian
cultures --- thanes/jarls were *elected* back before the idea of
hereditary warlords settled in.  Ancient Celts -- "nobility" (anyone
with property and weapons) *elected* their kings.  Democratic, or at
least republican principles in western European society go back
THOUSANDS of years; hereditary warlords/kings/emperors/despots is an
idea that seems to appear when the decision-makers in republics get
more interested in their own aggrandizement than in the
public/clan/tribal good, and when the economy is wealthy enough to
support it.  Note that most primitive tribes (a la Bushmen, pygmies,
etc) have an almost purely communist economy/society -- "from each
according to his abilities, to each according to his needs".

    The idea that "Jane Everybody' has just as much say as 'Peter
Plutocrat' comes from incredibly ancient times when everyone in the
tribe/clan contributed to its well-being, and thus had a say... there
were NO 'Peter Plutocrats'.  Later, everyone who "contributed" (owned
property or weapons) was considered worthy of having a say (Celts,
Athenian Greeks, Saxons, Norse, etc).

    Despotisms are an outgrowth of advances in civilization, where a
specialized ruling/administrative class could arise.  Most despotisms
justify their authority by the excuse that "they have the
responsibility of running the nation, so they must have the authority
to run the nation," oft cloaked in verbiage about the Divine right of
kings or some such.

    This excuse rests on the assumption that only the
ruler/nobility have the capability to make decisions for the good of
the nation...  the average "citizen" does not and must be taken care
of for his own/the nation's own good.  Democracy or lack thereof rests
solely on whether or not this assumption is held by the bulk of the
populace.  If it is, a "presumed qualified" (Peter Plutocrat?)
nobility will rule; if it is not, there will be revolution and unrest
until the populace wrests the power of government from whomever was so
foolish to presume that they had more right to make decisions about
"Jane Everybody's" life than "Jane Everybody" did.

 Ray_Pullar sez:
- ------------------------
And in the TNE rulebook.  The Reformation Coalition is pro-democracy
because it holds the Imperial system of government responsible for the
destruction of interstellar civilisation.  They don't see the rebellion
as some aberrant blip in the Third Imperium's history, some kind of
unfortunate accident that screwed it up.  The RCers see it as the
logical (perhaps inevitable) culmination of the whole Imperial system.
Hence they don't want to repeat the same mistakes.  Hence their attempt
- ---------------------------
Cynthia:
    Their mistake assuming *ANY* form of government is immune to that
form of collapse.  It was the late Roman *Republic* that was beset by
the civil wars between Pompeii and Julius Caesar, and among the first
Triumvirate, and between Augustus, Brutus and Cassius.  Chang
Kai-Shek's corrupt "democracy" collapsed in the face of Mao's
revolution.  A democracy can collapse into chaos just as easily as an
Empire, if allowed to become corrupt.

more Ray_Pullar sez:
- ------------------------
    As for the development of interstellar commerce being incompatible
with 'chicken stealing' - have you looked at the 19th century
colonisation of Africa?  Plenty of 'chicken stealing' took place with
the European colonists ripping off the native Africans every which way
they could while they built (or rather extended and dominated) the
local economy.  And exports from Africa were used to fuel the economic
development in Europe and in America.  Admittedly this is not a nice
model for the activities of the RC which is intent on practicising
'enlightened selfishness'.
 --------------------------
Cynthia:
    Another good model for the RC is the Spanish Empire when it
colonized and looted the New World.  The Spanish economy went into a
collapse from which it STILL has not fully recovered!  Why?  Cheap
goods from overseas looting made it impossible for local tradesmen and
craftsmen to compete, hence they went out of business, hence the
Spanish economy collapsed.  The same thing will happen to the RC if
they continue looting high-tech -- local industry will not be able to
compete / will have no impetus to improve, so the RC will remain TL
11-12, OR EVEN COLLAPSE back to lower TLs!  And when the TL14-15 loot
runs out (which it will eventually -- all taken or now owned by
enemies too tough to defeat), the RC will collapse.  You can't build
a healthy economy based on scavenging.

    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    |"What is the difference between the RCES and pirates?" |
    |"The RCES CARE more!"                                  |
    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    | Cynthia Higginbotham          chiggin@aol.com         |
    |                               1:396/1.8 Fidonet       |
    +-------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7124
From: chiggin@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 11:42:36 EST
Subject: TML musings

fok@scf.usc.edu sez:
- ---------------
Anyone out there using Quattro Pro for Windows?  if so I have a
finished small arms design worksheet that includes CPR slug throwers,
gauss small arms and grenade launchers.  *Most* of the noticable bugs
are fixed but NO gurentees.  I beleive Excel can translate it into
smoething it can understand, if not I can try to port it over.  (This
is starting to sound like a practical problem for you language folks
out there :)) E-mail me privately ifinterested and I'd upload it to
ftp.engrg.uwo.ca if there sufficient interest.
<deleted>
BTW how would one go about editing GIF images?
- ------------------
Cynthia:

Anybody who has spreadsheets I can import, I would be interested in
using them (have new Excel 4.0, wanna play)!  As for editing GIF
images, I use VPIC to dump them to Dr.Halo CUT file format, and use
Dr.Halo to edit them, VPIC to transfer them back to GIF format.
Alternatively, use any number of shareware image-processing programs
to dump GIFs to BMP, PCX or TARGA format, and edit with your favorite
BMP editor, Windows PC-Paint or Image processing software, then
convert back to GIF format.  VPIC-Dr.Halo-VPIC is the cheap route --
VPIC is shareware that came with my graphics card, and Dr.Halo is
Commerical-ware that was bundled with my cheapo Genius mouse.  (Long
since dead, but I kept DrHalo.)  If you had Windoze inflicted on you
with your computer, VPIC GIF<->BMP/PCX and use Windoze PC-Paint to
edit is another cheap route.

Dave 'Philios' Prentice sez:
- -----------------------
My fervent hope (and its a hope as big as all of the RCES) is that someone
out there with more time or spreadsheet knowhow than myself has already
come up with a nifty little worksheet for starship design.  My spreadsheet
of choice is Lotus 123 v2.0a for OS/2, so I can import almost anything
known to man (including Excel).
- -----------------------
Cynthia:
    In my spare time, I started working on a TNE starship design
spreadsheet in my shiny new Excel 4.0 spreadsheet (won it as a
doorprize).  (Runs fine under WIN-OS2).  You may have motivated me to
get back to work on it.  If I ever finish it, I will ftp it to
ftp.engrg.uwo.ca.

goldman@orac.cray.com sez:
- ------------------
I'm beginning to cross reference all of my Traveller matrial.  Does
anyone have suggestions about software tools to make this task easier?
I have started with the Amber Zones from the JoTAS and I'll be going
from there.
- -------------------
Cynthia:
    A good database?  What platform are you working on? (PC with
DOS/ Windows/ OS2?  Unix Workstation?  Macintosh?)  Personally, I've
gotten very fond of OS/2 .INF files, and am using the IPFC compiler to
create hyper-text linked reference files of everything from my
MegaTraveller starship collection to Marc's Home Cluster TCS campaign
data.  Now if someone would write a shareware/freeware DOS or
Windows-based INF viewer, we could make INF files a nice universal PC
hypertext standard...

James T Perkins sez:
- --------------------------
I just watched 'Demolition Man' last night. The future Police woman has
studied the 1990s slang, and still comes up with 'let's blow this guy'
instead of 'let's blow this guy away', to the amusement of the audience.
- -------------------------
Cynthia:
    <Cynthia looks oddly at James.> Gee, I didn't notice you hiding
behind the fireplace last night when we watched 'Demolition Man'...
<grin>.  We (me, Steve, my mother-in-law) were all in hysterics...
funny movie.  I'm keeping "Demolition Man" in mind for the next time
my players hit a really high law-level planet...  "Bzzzt! You are
fined 1 credit for violation of the verbal morality statutes."  "All
things that are not good for you have been deemed bad for you, hence
illegal... including tobacco, salt, caffeine, chocolate, red meat,
non-educational toys, ... , and spicy food."
    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    |"What is the difference between the RCES and pirates?" |
    |"The RCES CARE more!"                                  |
    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    | Cynthia Higginbotham          chiggin@aol.com         |
    |                               1:396/1.8 Fidonet       |
    +-------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7125
From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Designing Deckplans...
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 09:50:08 -0800 (PST)

In TML Msg. Num. 7091 Caffine Achiever! (Ed F.) <fok@scf.usc.edu> writes:

> James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com> writes:
> 
> > Mark Cook has used a drawing program and came up with some of the best
> > deck plans I've ever seen. Check out the Elissa, Alcyon, and other deck
> > plans on ftp.engrg.uwo.ca, under the pbem directory. Also there are a
> > few more in the vehicles directory.

That drawing program is xgedit, a proprietary X11-based raster editor
that I developed for in-house graphics design, which working for
Hewlett-Packard.  It's not an HP product, and I retain the source
code rights, but since it was developed on HP time, I can't release
source without legal authorization from HP.  I *can* however, distribute
executables, assuming that I've got a UNIX platform available to compile
on.  Currently, I can make binaries avaible for HP and Sun workstations.
Sorry, but it's not portable to PC/DOS/Windows environments.  The editor
can read and write XBM, XWD, TIFF (1 & 4 channel), and raw Eroff files.
It can't read or write GIF, but I use Jef Poskanzer's PBMPlus utilities
to convert to and from GIF, so it's not much of an obstacle.

BTW, xgedit is a pure raster editor and does not come with any "pre-
constructed" components, like most architectural design software.
Thus, if you want to design starship deckplans, you have to draw
everything from scratch.  This is not as hard as it sounds, as you
can design 1 acceleration couch a pixel at a time in the zoom editor,
and then replicate it (rotated as necessary) anywhare on the ship.
I found that only the first ship was hard to design (as I was creating
all the components for the first time.)  After that, I just cut-n-pasted
a lot of stuff from the first ship to subsequent designs.

> > > Is it possible that we could come to some internal (to the TML)
> > > informal standard which would allow al of us to exchange deck plans? I
> > > have several (all of the hand-drawn variety) which I am rather happy
> > > about, bu have not been able to find a suitable medium for putting
> > > them in a computer.
> >
> > The best image format, that the greatest number of people can view and
> > manipulate, remains GIF.  A far second is, perhaps, MS-Windows MP.

I've conducted TML surveys on two seperate occasions.  The most
favored image format is GIF by a long stretch, following (I *think*)
by EPS raster.  I'm not sure about the second format, as I'm typing
this from work and my notes are on my (unreachable from here) workstation
at home. :^(

> If so perhaps we should make available some shareware Gif/BMP viewers
> at ftp.engrg.uwo.ca.  BTW how would one go about editing GIF images?

If you want a standard GIF viewer for UNIX/X11 environments, your
best choice is XV.  The source is available by anon. ftp from
export.lcs.mit.edu (look in ~/pub/contrib.)  I'm not sure about
PC platforms.  The PBMPlus utility source is also available in
that location.

Later,

mark f. cook * 2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or * markc@csos.orst.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
                                             - Yiddish proverb

------------------------------

Bundle: 567
Archive-Message-Number: 7126
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 1994 20:13:14 +0200
From: Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no>
Subject: Regency                  

rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) wrote:

>Dear TML'ers,
>
>Would any of you TML'ers be interested in having access to such
>an area?
>
>Who wants a discussion area on the Regency?

I would be interested in a Regency discussion group as I have been
developing Gvurrdon for HIWG for more than two years now, with the
intent to get it published one day [dreaming].

I have updated Gvurrdon to TNE, and finds it natural to get some info
about what Regency are doing these days. It will surely affect what
happening in Gvurrdon.

BTW: Rodge, when are the stuff being mailed, and how much will it cost?

Roger "StarWolf" Myhre
                

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #568: Msgs 7127-7138 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Apr  3 22:00:01 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #568: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 568  7127 31-Mar-1994 James T Perkins  Re: How is a "mailing list" formed?  <<
 568  7128 31-Mar-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 4 << Gentlesophont
 568  7129 01-Apr-1994 rancke@diku.dk   A superabundance of Nobles << Catie Hel
 568  7130 01-Apr-1994 David Hoey       A small adventure << Greetings,
 568  7131 01-Apr-1994 Dave 'Philios'   GIF vs EPS! << > From: Mark Cook <markc
 568  7132 01-Apr-1994 DANIEL_T@delphi  Bridge Crew Question << Hi everyone,
 568  7133 01-Apr-1994 James T Perkins  Re: ftpmail  << James Dening <james@cam
 568  7134 01-Apr-1994 Diane Kelly      really BIG guns! << Scott Kellogggg's d
 568  7135 01-Apr-1994 Jo_Grant.LOTUSI  Amber Zone -- On The Rocks <<  One of t
 568  7136 01-Apr-1994 Derek Wildstar   TNE:What Does the Future Hold? << jeff.
 568  7137 01-Apr-1994 TML Administrat  Image viewers (was: Designing Deckplans
 568  7138 01-Apr-1994 Vincent J Cocci  Quattro-Pro FFS worksheets  << I would 

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7127
Subject: Re: How is a "mailing list" formed? 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 10:36:35 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) writes:
> I was wondering how the TML and the TNE-pocket were formed. Would it be
> difficult for someone (such as myself) to administer another discussion
> group, say, one on the Regency?

The TML was formed after I posted a note to rec.games.frp (now
rec.games.frp.misc) to see if there was any interest. I then went to my
UNIX Systems Admin and set up sendmail aliases (controlled by the system
admin) that referenced a file that I owned and could modify (via the
:include: directive). It's important to have a list, owner-list, 
list-request addresses in order to follow proper list etiquette. In that
file I listed the recipients. All that remained was to let the people
know it existed! The digesting, auto-reply, and other fancy stuff came
later (I recommend that only for a large list).

Administering the group means adding and deleting people from the
distribution file, answering questions, stirring the pot to keep
discussion going, and dealing effectively with bounced mail (which
sometimes takes technical savvy). I administer TML via remote,
programmatic additions and deletions from the list files on
engrg.uwo.ca. When it was on my own computer, I just used a text file
editor on the list.

By the way, today I added our 500th TML member: rfkm@aol.com (Hi RKFM,
pity I don't know your real name). It's prophetic that it's an AOL
address, AOL members have flooded the TML membership in the last year.
There are now 500 member addresses on the active list: 14 are on
temporary hiatus, 396 receive the nightly digest, 88 receive the
biweekly digest, and 6 receive the archive bundles; there are also 2
prospective new members awaiting address confirmation.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7128
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 94 09:25:00 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 4

Gentlesophonts:

Ah, Wednesday night was a good one!  But first let me make a point about tone
in my postings.  I guess it seems to some folks that I'm often 'bitching' in
my replies because most of what I say in response takes issue with whomever I'm
replying to.   Let me suggest that this is due to the fact that, in the
interest of bandwidth conservation, I seldom acknowledge something that I
agree with.  You can rest assured that if I only reply to 20%, or 50%, or 80%
of someone's ideas I probably agree with the bulk of what I *didn't* reply
to, even if most of what appears on TML takes issue with it.

Okay, on to Wednesday night's posts:
 
Ray_Pullar <csh019@cch.coventry.ac.uk> writes:
 
> David Johnson responds:
>  Only in the mind(?) of GDW . . . .
> 
> And in the TNE rulebook.

Good point.  I don't have the rule book.  :-)
  
> The Reformation Coalition is pro-democracy
> because it holds the Imperial system of government responsible for the
> destruction of interstellar civilisation.
> Hence they don't want to repeat the same mistakes.  Hence their attempt
> to construct a new and fundamentally different form of interstellar
> government.

Another good point but just because the RC doesn't want to be an aristocracy
doesn't mean they know 'how' to be a democracy.  This isn't a criticism, just
a fact that might lead to some interesting possibilities.  What happens
when disenfranchised groups (robots, cyborgs, former aristocrats?) start
clamoring for their share of the pie?
  
> And if you think about the history of the Traveller
> universe they may have a point.  There have been three human
> interstellar civilisations ruled using the Imperial system.  They have
> all collapsed eventually.

I don't know.  Eleven hundred years just for the Third Imperium kind of
overshadows our little 200+ year experiment here in America.

> As for the member worlds of the former Third Imperium having no
> democratic traditions - well, some of them were democracies

Yes, but the 'interstellar' culture was aristocratic.  Nothing got done
on an interstellar level outside of the aristocracy.  Even the megacorps
(which were run by aristocrats, remember) looked to the aristocracy and
the aristocracy's Navy to police commerce.
 
> I find it amusing that so many people have a rose-tinted view of the
> Third Imperium.  They seem to regard it as some kind of utopia.

Not me.  The non-eqalitarian aspect of the Imperium *always* bothered me.
The fact that there wasn't a truly egalitarian society anywhere in the
Imperium campaign was one of its greatest failings.

As for this discussion, I've left the CT/MT vs. TNE arguement behind long
ago.  I've been trying to just focus on the details of TNE.

> their thirst for power that brought the Imperium down and killed
> billions of sentient life forms.

Hmmm, I *guess* one *might* be able to blame the Virus on the aristocracy.(?)

> Allen Shock:
>  In all, the RC is a fairly organized governmental entity
> 
> David Johnson:
>  Okay, which means the Star Vikings are either all `bad' or all `good'
>  depending on how you see the RCES defining it's role.  There won't be
>  much variation in the ranks.
> 
> I think that this is a specious argument.  You're trying to force
> things into one absolute or another.  There's is no reason for this to
> be the case.  As a citizen of a newly emergent multi-nation government
> (the European Union) the idea that somehow all the member governments
> and their populations will be forced to think the same way strikes me
> as ridiculous.  It just isn't happening. 

If the RC is centralized and *effective* in foreign affairs then there isn't
much room for variation in the ranks.  A variety of opinions leads to a *lack*
of effective action.  The European Union in the former Yugoslavia hasn't
been effective at all.  Neither has the UN *anywhere*.  If the RCES is out
accomplishing things then generally it's operations from place to place
will be similar in nature - you won't have some Vikings doing 'good deeds'
and some doing 'bad deeds' and both coming back to the same company picnic.
 
> As for the
> development of interstellar commerce being incompatible with 'chicken
> stealing' - have you looked at the 19th century colonisation of
> Africa?  Plenty of 'chicken stealing' took place with the European
> colonists ripping off the native Africans every which way they could
> while they built (or rather extended and dominated) the local economy.
> And exports from Africa were used to fuel the economic development in
> Europe and in America.  Admittedly this is not a nice model for the
> activities of the RC which is intent on practicising 'enlightened
> selfishness'.

Exactly.  What the European colonial powers did wasn't trade at all.  It was
resources extraction.  This may very well be what the RC is doing.  But then
it's 'chicken stealing', and not 'enlightened development'.  That's not a 
criticism in my view but it is different than some other folks' view of the RC.
 
> I don't see how this is a
> problem.  The RC see themselves as the good guys.  Other people may see
> them as the bad guys.  Are they really good guys or bad guys?  It's up
> to you but I think that there is much evidence to support either view.
> Mabye they're neither.

I agree.  I guess I was trying to take issue with the proposition that the
RC were 'enlightened'.  Self-interest seldom has the long-term focus to
permit it to be 'enlightened'.  In general, what's 'good' for the RC when
it shows up at someone else's world won't be 'good' for the locals.  I
guess I'm still hooked on the 'Prime Directive'.  :-)
 
> Or mabye it's just the pragmatic recognition of the fact that a ruler
> with a contented population who will support him in a war is a tougher
> enemy than a ruler who is hated and who will not gain as much support.
> It is easier to rule when you've the cooperation of the
> ruled.  I don't think that the Coalition has the manpower and equipment
> to force itself on the surrounding worlds.

A good point.  But 'pragmatism' is not 'altruism'.  Certainly the RC believes
it can force itself on its neighbors - or least protect itself from eventual
retribution.
 
> David Johnson:
>  With a relatively stable, centralized
>  government in the RC this `good vik' - `bad vik' issue will have to be
>  resolved.
>
> I don't think so.  Remember IranGate?  Seems that government agencies
> and department's within agencies can have their own agendas, sometimes
> incompatible with the policy of the government.  Out in the wilds you
> are on your own.  Tough decisions must be made quickly.  RC personnel
> have to interpret the guidelines.  Is this guy a real TED who we should
> overthrow or is he not 'bad' enough?  Don't know.  Better check with
> headquarters.  Uh...they're only 8 weeks away by starship.

Well, yes.  But the 'Iran-contra' characters were eventually dealt with.  Such 
behavior has at least been criticized officially and is supposedly not
condoned - even if Ollie North may be a senator next year.  There may be
aberrations (even *Star Trek* has had rogue captains) but if the general
attitude of the RCES is 'benevolent' then Vikings who err on the side of
'malevolence' too often will be removed.  Again, the pattern will generally
be one way or the other.  The only way both 'benevolent' *and* 'malevolent'
vikings will be common is with a fragmented, decentralized RC.

> David Johnson:
>  Is this sort of like letting Exxon or Alcoa come into your country to
>  help you develop?  (Or William Penn buying Manhattan for a handfull of
>  beads?) Doesn't sound too benevolent to me.
> 
> But it creates lots of local jobs.  I assume that you think that the
> economic development offered by the Third Imperium to its' member
> worlds was unselfish and totally beneficial? 

Not at all.  Don't think for a minute that I'm trying to suggest that the
RC is somehow 'worse' than the Imperium.  In fact, in the context of TNE,
this sort of comparison is irrelevant.  My view though is basically different
from Allen Shock's in that I don't see the Star Vikings as such good guys.
They may be a helluva lot of fun to play, but they won't be winning any
Nobel Peace Prizes soon.  :-)
 
> You are still intent on forcing the RC to be either one thing or the
> other.  I don't see why it can't be both. Are you saying that this kind
> of conflict in goals doesn't exist in the activities of real world
> governments and their foreign policies?

They can't have both and be *effective*.  Certainly you have both sentiments
in the real world but in general self-interest dominates.  Look at the US,
which I like to believe is mostly a 'good' guy.  We still spend only a fraction
of our efforts in humanitarian pursuits.  We're much better at forging an
international coalition to kill Iraqis than to feed Somalis.  If humanitarians
were as influential in our government as are 'pragmatists' we would have
been just as *ineffective* in the Persian Gulf as we have been in Somalia.

This has been a great discussion - at least for me.  :-)  Some good points
to consider and debate.  Now if only we could expand it to the Regency and
the rest of TNE.

"In arguement, truth is discovered."
                 - Russian proverb

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7129
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: A superabundance of Nobles
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 06:17:59 +0100 (METDST)

Catie Helm writes:
>from Dane's post (TML nightly: Msgs 7067-7075 V70#18)
> 
>> -- To 'accurately' follow the TNE
>>continuity will require several 'interlocking' sourcebooks so that we
>>can see the whole picture.  Unfortunately, for those of us unhappy with
>>the region of focus at the moment, we are forced to develop our own
>>information in the almost certain knowledge that our carefully
>>rationalized explanations will probably not jibe with later published
>>materials.
>>......................<etc etc etc>
>>Dane
> 
>Nor is this the first time that this has happened with Traveller
>venues.  Jim Kelleher (a bay area ref & gamer) generated a character
>back in the legendary era of CT, long long ago in the mists of time
>(Am I dating you, Jim?) which rolled up, by the then-rules, as
>the Countess of Regina.  This causes some small amount of
>consternation when later CT/MT materials presented Norris as
>the Duke of Regina.  Jim's character is still in play and people who
>play in Jim's campaigns cope.  Background is often as pliable as the
>rules are...

Although you are right in the general sense, in this particular case the
fault was on the part of your friend. There is a single line in one of 
the three original books that makes it clear that noble titles are
planetary titles (Something like: "There are two more levels above Duke,
Prince and King, and these are used for rulers of worlds"). Thus your
friend should not have been able to generate any Imperial noble.
Unfortunately that little detail got scrambled in Megatraveller; hence
the wierdness of having one Imperial baron and two knights in each
average-sized school class. If you check the adventures put out you 
will find Imperial barons serving as marine grunts and customs 
inspectors, totally contrary to my concept of Imperial nobility. I
wrote an article suggesting an alternate system of nobility (The Emperor
wound up as SL Y; this was not planned, it just worked out that way, but
I was kinda pleased that there would also be an appropiate SL for any
rulers of whole galaxies one might encounter). I sent it to Challenge, 
but unfortunately it arrived just as they closed their intake of 
Megatraveller stuff. Sigh... I have a suspicion that they didn't even
read it. 


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent
         events based on the individual situation."
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7130
From: David Hoey <dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au>
Subject: A small adventure
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 17:30:36 +0930 (CST)

Greetings,

People on the list were looking for some plot ideas / modules which GM's
had used.  The following is a description of an adventure I had drawn up
for my first game using the TNE rules.  I have played and GMed CT and MT
since 1979, mainly CT since I didn't see a copy of MT until 2 years ago.

Were I live (Darwin, in the Northern Territory of Australia) got it's
first gamimg supplies store about 2 years ago.  It can be hard to keep
track of changes when living in the middle of nowhere.  Anyway adescription
of the adventure.


The adventure plot:

It is based on a planet in an expanded system which is not the primary
planet.  The characters are being offered the job to investigate the
planet for the RCES.  All the details known about the planet is that any
ship reported as going there have never be sighted again. 

The details I used to make the characters accept the mission is a promise
to waiver the mortage fees on their ship for the duration, and a cut on
any goods found.  The RCES also reminded them that the government owned
a portion of the lease and the mortage.

The trip to the planet was fairly uneventful, mainly because I didn't want
to do space combat until I had Brillant Lances.

The situation on the planet was a team of psionic rebels had siezed control
about 70 years ago. Once in control they had set them selves up as gods and
had psionic priests in control.  These priest ran the planet through the power
of psionics.  Any member of the planet's population with psionic abilities
was immediately inducted into the priesthood.  Mean while the original psionic
rebels where using the low berths in their grounded ship to extended their 
lives.

The need to keep the low berths going meant they need spares.  To obtain these
spare they where luring ships to land and capturing them.  The method used
was similar to a virus attack.  The people below would welcome the starship
and transmitt the coordinates in binary.  A psionic using computer empathy
would enter the ships computer during the link and attempt to disable the
ships enviromental controls.

People on the planet are either rich, powerful psionic priests or peasants.
Some people amongst the lower class are staging a rebellion, and need off-world
assistance.  Also the priests speak normal Galanglic while the peasants speak
a dialect of galanglic.  To understand a peasant a character needs to make
a difficult skill check against linguistics.

The adventure was for the characters to land at the starport, be meet by the
High Priest, and invited to dinner.  At the dinner a rebel waiter drops a
contact note on a napkin to the Off-world(character) leader.  The note
is writen the local dialect.  From this point the PC's should contact the
rebels and try to overthrow the priests.

I am little bit sketchy at this point as the adventure didn't quite get
this far.  This is how the adventure ran.  When the characters equipped them
selves they all brought comabt armour with psionic shields.  The people I
play with are a little bit paranoid.  Also the RCES assigned to them a Hiver
computer specialist.

When the PC's made contact with the planet they feared a virus attack.  They
used a hand computer to receive the coordinates.  During the
transfer they noticed the virus like attempt and broke the connection.
The PC's decided to land at the starport anyway and did it without to many
problems.

After meeting the High Priest they decide to send some people to the dinner
and leave some to guard the ship.  They also noticed the other captured
ships at the starport.  There where many plans made to steal one of these
ships.

At the dinner everything was going fine until the rebel waiter dropped the 
note.  The PC leader failed his linguistics role and couldn't read it.  He
then gave the note to the High Priest and asked for an interpretation.  The 
High Priest claimed the note was for a meeting of a sexual nature with the 
waiter.

Mean while the PC's on the ship went investigating the other ships.  They 
dodged the guards left to keep an them safe.  (Some of the population was
xenophobic).  All of the ships they looked at where gutted of vital 
components, making them unspaceworthy.  As they where leaving a hanger, in
which one of the ships was stored, they encounter some natives.  The natives
where disabled with tranq rounds and hand-to-hand combat.

Unfortuately they attracted the guards attention, who come over to investigate.
The PCs tried to bluff there way out, (I can't remember the extact
unbelievable line they used).  The guards where looking for an excuse to bring
more equipment and personnel into the area to attack the PC's ship.  So they
lied and agreed to the PCs story.

Back at the dinner the PC's were asked to stay for the night in the palace
for discussions on trade in the morning.  After entering their room the PCs
decide to leave and had called up the ship's air raft to pick them up.
Just before the air raft arrived a rebel entered their room.  The rebel was
in the middle of telling his story when his was killed by a psionic assault
attack.  A psionic priest then burst into the room, just as the air raft 
arrived.  All the PC's in the room except one ran for the air raft.  

The one remaining PC tried to take on the psionic priest, missing.  The priest
then stunned the PC.  The others opened fire from the air raft using a
7mm Rotary Gun.  The stunned PC was in the burst area but the others didn't 
care.  The player on the gun fired five fifty round bursts at the priest.
The priest disappeared under about 60 to 100 dice of damage.  The stunned PC
took about 10 stray rounds but his comabt armour saved him from any serious
damage.

We didn't continue after this as one of the players went away for about 3 
months, and I haven't had the time to continue since he got back.


- -- 
**************************************************************************
*  David Hoey          * Computer Science, Northern Territory University *
*  dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au * Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia           *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7131
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 00:41:22 -0900
From: Dave 'Philios' Prentice <ASDYP@acad2.alaska.edu>
Subject: GIF vs EPS!

> From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
> I've conducted TML surveys on two seperate occasions.  The most
> favored image format is GIF by a long stretch, following (I *think*)
> by EPS raster.

All I have to say in regards to this is that EPS deckplans are *awesome*, and
GIF deckplans are "okay".  As far as viewing them on the screen, and cross
platform compatability, VGS-res GIF images are probably the best.  Heck, every
luser seems to have half a dozen GIF viewers available.  I know that I have my
share (but of them I seem to use WinGif1.4 the most).  

As far as I am concerned, Postscript is *just* as cross-platform.  There are
versions of Ghostscript for almost every platform, and thats more than enough
to view the stuff.  On top of that, it is far more printer-compliant than GIF
will ever be.  Maybe I'm just prejudiced because I have a PS-lvl2 laser printer
connected to my OS/2 machine.  Actually, all it takes is something like
Pagemaker to turn the nice deckplans for the Felicity into 25mm grid maps.  :)

Does anyone know of a util to convert GIF into EPS?

Dave




------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7132
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 06:37:35 -0500 (EST)
From: DANIEL_T@delphi.com
Subject: Bridge Crew Question

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the list, and I have a question about MegaTraveller.

On page 82 of the Referee's Manual (step 7) it says that "The minimum bridge 
crew is 2." Yet in the Imperial Encyclopedia, on pages 80ff, the
Scout/Courier, Seeker, Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidized Merchant, Yacht,
Laboratory Ship and Safari Ship, all have bridge crews of one. I couldn't
find any errata on this. What is the minimum bridge crew? 

Also, I've noticed in the archive site that there are a lot of programs that 
deal with Traveller for IBM's, are there any for the Macintosh? 

==Daniel T.


------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7133
Subject: Re: ftpmail 
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 94 06:56:56 PST
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


James Dening <james@camscan.co.uk> writes:
> >> Uh-uh. Nope. Nada. No.
> Come on James, spit it out. Stop beating around the bush and tell me what
> you *really* mean!

:-) I mean that there is no ftpmail server at ftp.engrg.uwo.ca. I am
not against someone setting one up, but I myself haven't the time nor
inclination. Bad admin. Bad, bad, bad admin. :-)

James

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7134
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 10:49:39 -0500
From: Diane Kelly <dkelly@acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: really BIG guns!

Scott Kellogggg's design for the hand meson gun reminds me of a weapon I
designed using the old Striker rules -- the 35mm snub pistol firing 
Californium collapsing fusion rounds.  My high-school chem teacher and I
worked out the yield for a Californium round stuffed with deuterium.  It came
to about 100 kilotons.  It was a really great weapon; only carried 1 shot . . .
I'll have to see if I can design it using FF&S.

The posts about languages made me consider an interesting fact:  if you go by
numbers of speakers, the "proper" form of English on Earth is that spoken in
India!  This has some relevance to the Imperium -- a form of Vilani or Gal-
anglic might be very widespread, yet very hard for native Vilani or Anglic 
speakers to understand.  This could be particularly important in campaigns
using "frozen characters" awakening in the New Era.
	"Does anyone here speak English?"
	"Yarzur, mo shpaak naglakh!"

Jim Cambias
Misusing My Wife's Internet Account
At Duke Bio

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7135
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 12:00:17 EST
From: Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT.LOTUS@CRD.lotus.com
Subject: Amber Zone -- On The Rocks

	One of the things I miss most about the Journal of the Traveler's
Aid Society (and lets face it TNE wimps, TAS is what *Traveller* is
really about) is the Amber Zone section. I still use them (like one
I used from issue 6 last week :-)
	For those of you who are too young to remember the Amber Zone
section was a short and simple plot outline. No great development but
enough detail to slot it in to a normal campaign.
	I've posted the odd one in the past and when anyone bothered
to comment it was generally positive. So here we go again...


			ON THE ROCKS

	While on a layover or between jobs on Oca (A668A9B-C) the PCs
come across some data. It can be sold to them as "interesting" or
as a partial payment for their last job or if the are ex-Navy as a
tip. The data consists of the final transmission of a Navy fighter
on a mission about 30 years ago. It records it losing control while
flying NOE and the pilots ejecting. There is a partial radar scan/
transponder trace, showing its last trajectory.
	Accessing navy records will indicate the craft listed as lost.
If they can get at the site report it will conclude that although
the craft soft-landed a fusion plant leak melted the ice around it
and they measured it at 50m depth with a densiometer. It was never
recovered.
	The site itself is about 400km away from the Teo down starport
arcology. The local government is straightlaced so they will have
to apply for a surface-pass. Ambient temperature is -167C and winds
are frequently above 100kph. The ice-flats around it, though, are
used by the adventurous for Icerigging (boats with skates).
	Several problems complicate the recovery for the PCs. Firstly
the exact location of the crash is not known. The radar scan/transponder
trace will give a good indication and someone with navigation can
trail the trajectory to surface level.
	Secondly, fighters being heavier than ice, it has sunk over
the years, albeit slowly. It now resides at a depth of 500m. About
the only think that can detect it at this distance is a high
penetration densiometer. Even then there will be several shadows. And
it will be difficult to pinpoint unless they are right on top of it.
	Getting on top is difficult because over the years not only
has the fighter sunk but the ice has moved around it. On this sort
of ice-bound planet the mechanics of ice-sheet tectonics come somewhere
between plate movement and glacial deposition. Quite interesting if
you are a scout. Fortunately if they check out the local university
the rates of deposition/erosion as well as the ice-current for the
area are on record for the past several hundred years.
	Once located they mearly have to dig through half a kilometer
of ice to get at it. For those tempted to use the ship's lasers they
will just have to be reminded of the planet's law level and that they
will not be given permission, under any circumstance, to fly their ship
away from the starport let alone fire its weapons.
	Clever players will come up with a variety of ingenious methods
of digging through the ice. If they have rented icerigging gear
there will be a ice-hollowing unit included for setting up their
shelter. This is a micro-wave based emitter but its batteries are
really only enough for setting up the shelter a number of times.
Mechanically minded PCs could get this runing of a portable power
unit but it really would be slow progress. What they need is an
industrial strength one...
	If they inquire in the arcology they may find that the same company
that makes the sports model also makes larger models. These are generally
used in minining, construction and idustry and are quite expensive
(~100000Cr). If they nose around they may find a construction model
for hire (1000Cr/day). Back at the University they can wheedle the
one they use for core sampling for 10000Cr for as long as they want.
Unless a substansial deposit is put down they will want to send some
post-graduate along to keep an eye on it and get some experience.
	The units are fairly simple to operate, however their task is
not as simple as digging down 500m. Beneath the surface of the ice
it is not as cold as on the surface. The digger works by vapourising
the ice. On the surface this blows away. Near the surface it freezes
againt almost instantly, caking up whatever environmental suits they
are wearing. Deeper down the steam will condense on the walls. Where
does this water go? Downhill!
	If they dig straight down they will soon be in a pool of water.
The digger will eventually reach a point where it is just boiling the
water that has collected at the bottom and not making any real progress.
Digging on an angle (or a large spiral) will lesson this effect but
will still cause problems. If they can arrange a pump to pump the water
out as it condenses that will solve many things. Watch for the outflow of
the pump freezing up, though!
	As they make progress they will have a long tunnell carved through
solid ice. They will have to take special precautions to get in an out.
At a 1 in 10 slope it is a 5km bobsled slope from to to bottom. Try
carting a 300lb industrial melter up and down that each day.
	The last problem they will face is that the ice is not stationary.
It doesn't move fast but it does move. The effect of this is that the
gap they have dug will get a little narrower each day. They may notice
that it is a bit difficult to pull the melter out each night. Of course
they can always work a 24 hour shift (the melter melts a 1m diameter
tunnell 1m long in 1 minute) but they will have to clear it up again
before they get it back out.
	When they eventually reach the site of the wreck they will find
it still partially intact. The current of ice has strewn the debris behind
it so not all of it is there. If there are looking for specific components
I suggest a Routine densiometer ops roll. Failure indicates that it is
not there and is strewn along the debris trail.
	So what do they get for all this hard work? The navy will always
pay a bounty for recovery. Just the transponder will suffice. Maybe there
are personal effects that would be of great sentimental value to the
pilot (who may still be alive) or just any Navy collector. Any intact
systems in the craft would probably make reasonable spares.
	I reccomend that between the Navy bounty and the salvage sale the
PCs should make about 1% of the original worth of the craft. Clever PCs
may flog off bits of it in clever ways and should deserve more. (Like
selling the 500m ice core to the scouts?)
	Possible side lines: What about the previously unknown creatures
that live and burrow beneath the ice? Very well to do and nosy iceriggers
could always drop by for a cup of tea. What if the ice-sheet only caps a
unfrozen ocean and the fighter is near the bottom?

	If you are a sad individual and play TNE you can still use this. Just
throw in a bunch of down-and-outers. Make the crash 300 years ago. Overplay
the need for spares. And don't forget to tell them what a wonderful furure
they are working toward and how much they can play a part...


					Jo
	

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7136
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 12:39:03 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@quark.qrc.com>
Subject: TNE:What Does the Future Hold?

jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) writes:
>   Does the RC know that the Regency and the other Spinward states 
>   exist?  Do the Hivers?  Does the Regency know about the survival 
>   of the Hive Federation?  About the RC?
> 
>   At this point in time, we must assume that the answer to all of 
>   these questions is "no" [...]

I'm not so sure about that.  Let's take a quick look at what each major
group knows about the rest of the universe:

o Does the RC know that the Regency and the other Spinward states exist?

No; they're not aware of the Regency (or rather, have almost certainly
assumed that all of known space looks more or less like the area around the
Reformation Coalition does).  They have no evidence or indication to assume
otherwise, so they're almost certainly working off of the premise that the
largest "opposition" that they are going to encounter is the Guild and/or
other Pocket Empires.  Given their Hiver technical assistance, the RC should
be a match for any pocket empire they encounter.

o Do the Hivers?

The Hivers probably have a clue.  They know the most about the former Third
Imperium - the "History Club" that toured the region during the end of the
Rebellion for example.  They are certainly aware that the Domain of Deneb
existed (relatively) untouched by the Rebellion.  They can assign a
probabiliy (and I'd guess a high one) to the chance that the Domain still
exists in some form.  Furthermore, since the Hivers managed to muddle
through the Virus without suffering complete collapse, either the Hivers
are so ethnocentric that they believe no other race could have done it, or
the hivers consider it probable that other races or regions could have
survived in a condition similar to the Hive Federation.

o Does the Regency know about the survival of the Hive Federation?

Because of the Regency's closed border policy, they probably know very
little about what the universe at large looks like.  However, they will have
to concede the possibility of other regions taking measures similar to the
ones that they have taken, and surviving with a similar situation.

Presumably, there is currently an ongoing debate in the Regency over the
probability of such other surviving areas, and whether it would be better to
expend some of the Regency's resources to attempt to contact other regions,
or remain behind the Regency's secure borders until other areas attempt to
contact the Regency.

o About the RC?

Not at all.  The Reformation Coalition is a pocket empire (perhaps even a
typical one, except that it is recieving Hiver technical assistance).
There's no way the Regency could know about it at this point.


wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future


------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7137
Subject: Image viewers (was: Designing Deckplans...)
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 94 08:16:09 PST


I've just uploaded the "alt.binaries.pictures FAQ - OS specific info"
and the "JPEG image compression: Frequently Asked Questions" files to
sunbane.

	Site:		ftp.engrg.uwo.ca [129.100.100.12]
	Directory:	/pub/traveller
	File:		imagefaq.1, imagefaq.2

Both will tell you what viewers you can use for UNIX, MS-DOS, Windows,
Apple, Amiga, Atari, VAX/VMS, NeXT etc. and where you can ftp them from.
I can recommend the following utilities as some of my faves:

	UNIX+X11:	xv, pbmplus
	MS-DOS:		Disp (formerly DISPLAY), Qpeg, SVGA
	Windows:	LView, WinGIF, JView

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 568
Archive-Message-Number: 7138
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 13:29:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Vincent J Coccia <vjc@kepler.unh.edu>
Subject: Quattro-Pro FFS worksheets 


I would be really like the worksheets for small arms. I have done some 
small design work but I am interested in working up a line of anti-hijack 
weapons for the defensively-minded ship owner. Thanks...

Vince

BTW anyone have 'sheets for vehicles and/or starships...I'd like these too...


V

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #569: Msgs 7139-7149 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Apr  3 22:00:01 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #569: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 569  7139 01-Apr-1994 Karl Crandall    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7123-7128 V71#5 <
 569  7140 01-Apr-1994 "Susan M. Shock  TNE Background Discussion << Mr Johnson
 569  7141 01-Apr-1994 stevenl184@aol.  Address confirmation << This is for yo 
 569  7142 01-Apr-1994 Ed Sharpe        Intro Adventure to introduce the new ru
 569  7143 02-Apr-1994 David Hoey       Gauss Pistol Design << The following is
 569  7144 02-Apr-1994 Roger Myhre      re: Bridge Crew           << DANIEL_T@d
 569  7145 01-Apr-1994 gdw.support@gen  <<  
 569  7146 01-Apr-1994 Jeff Freeman     TNE:What does the future hold <<     Su
 569  7147 02-Apr-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 5 << Gentlesophont
 569  7148 02-Apr-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 6 << Gentlesophont
 569  7149 01-Apr-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     71:4/9109 TRAVELLER BACKG << Subject: 7

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7139
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 11:58:47 -0500
From: kxc22@po.cwru.edu (Karl Crandall)
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7123-7128 V71#5

Hi Readers,

Just wanted to let you in on my current MegaTraveller (I guess) adventure. 
I haven't played much lately and don't know the official background of the
Ancients but here's the deal.  

Some friends of mine go hiking in Canada (roleplaying themselves) and awake
to discover that a spaceship is landing out on an island in the georgian
bay.  they decide to ignore it and can't get through to anyone on the radio
so they are considering leaving when the gang from Blue Book show up to
study the thing.  Of course these "earth defense forces" simply begin
shooting my characters with a long range taser to knock them out and get
them out of the way when the Characters are misteriously transported into
the ship.  Well,  the ship is a tech TL23 or whatever built by the
Grandfather (Ancients) himself to go to early earth to get some
"primative"/ or pure human DNA samples and/or psionic brain prints.  En
route the ship was attacked by an AI missle designed by the "children" to
intercept the ship and render it inactive by whatever means necessary.  The
missle is "programmed" to be a tactical genius which means it was able to
out fly and eventually attach itself to the Ship and inject micromachines
that disable ship systems and repair robots on the Ship.  Of course the
Ship is run by a Triumvarate of AI's whom all have personallity quirks and
aren't getting along at the moment.  This lack of cooperation is the
fundemental reason the Triumvarate is unable to remove the invading
computer.  Another importent note is that the missle has done its job and
the "Children's Fleet" backing it up in hopes of capturing the Ship never
showed up for reasons unbeknowst to the missle.  After years of limping
through space and time the Ship finally makes it to earth and the Missle AI
is beginning to get depressed, "I did my job and look what I get for my
troubles."  

SO the Character are teleported on board and are addressed by one of the
Ship's AI's if they wouldn't mind helping out in some repairs.  Of course,
they first have to lay back and relax in the "Accelaration" couches to
receive instruction on how to help.  I used this as a device to allow the
characters 3-4 levels of skills involving engineering, computing, piloting,
commo, etc.  I rolled success task and for partial success I had the
characters get only 1-2 skills but latent psionic skills become active. 
Cool huh?  

One of the main problems with getting the ship off the ground was that it
barely had enough fuel to get in orbit let alone jump anywhere.  So I had
the player bargain with the missle AI for some of its antimatter fuel for
some of the information on the Ship's computers concerning the "CHildren". 
I used the genetic end-dates from Blade Runner idea but official
information on the Ancients and there conflict may lend other information
to be importent.  Well after a mild skirmish with US gnd forces the Ship
takes off intercepts a few nuclear missles the russians shot from an
orbiting station with its black globe and jumps into hyperspace.  At this
point the player have lost all control of the ship's computer's and are
just along for the ride.  Going through a "Children's" blockade the
characters finally get to Grandfather's black hole/pocket universe and are
examined by the head man itself. It looks at them with whatever
superabilities It has and them tells them they can go home.  A polite robot
asks them to return all property that is the grandfather's ie all the high
tech stuff the pocketed from the ship and then asks them if the missle is
their's.  Well it certainly isn't the grandfather's why should the robot be
concerned about it.  They repond of course it is and the robot tells them
it will be marked for delivery and asks them to step through this door.

Well, somehow the characters are unceramoniously dumped at and an old alien
installation somewhere in the traveller universe with an intelligent
missle.  The "warp field" around the pocket universe caused time to advance
several millenia and the character are now in the Imperium, or Rebellian,
or somewhere sometime.  I have been considering the idea that maybe the
real cause of the virus is this tech 21 AI on the missle.  Or maybe it
saves a planet from being infected by the virus and the planet rewards the
character with there last remaining 40 year old partially operational Scout
ship.  Or the character adventure around for awhile in the rebellion and
when they meet the virus the AI which they installed in some ship barely
manages to put them all in stasis before it becomes brainfried.  Etc.

What do you guys think?  A rather crazy, and powerful beginning but I think
it has some promise.  Imagine trying to fix a tech 13 jump drive with tech
9 and tech 23 engineering skills.  What do you mean its not sagashiating
correctly doesn't it have a kanootin valve?  Shit...try hitting it with a
hammer!

Take Care,

Karl
Karl Crandall    	       	
kxc22@po.cwru.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7140
Date:         Fri, 01 Apr 94 14:44:22 EST
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      TNE Background Discussion

Mr Johnson:
   I too have enjoyed thse discussions about the Star Viking background. There
is one thing which bothers me, though. You are effectively trying to lead a
discussion about this without yourself having done any research on the
subject. You haven't read Path of Tears, or any of the material in the rulebook
which pertains to the RC. This would be much akin to trying to lead a literary
discussion without knowing anything about the author or his/her writings. Time
and again, I can't help but think your understanding of these issues-and even
your ability to play Devil's Advocate-would be enhanced if you would simply buy
Path of Tears and read it. If you then decide you don't care for TNE, I know
two people you could sell your copy to if no one on the TML wants it.
   You seem to be interested in this "good vik, bad vik" thing. The RC is
like any other government; it can fall prey to corruption and infighting, and
the danger of this is already evident in the war of words between the Centrists
and the Federalists. However, the RCES sets standards for it's troops;according
to the book, they want to avoid the reputation for being as bad or worse than
the invaders from previous times (the Solomani and the Imperium) were. They
are spread very thin, however, and must sometimes hire freelancers and THEY
don't have to follow accepted RCES procedures. This combined with propaganda
from the Star Guild (who coined the name "Star Vikings" to conjure up just the
sort of negative imagery that it seems to invoke in many people around here)
is what results in the view that history will have of the RCES, as denoted in
several "future history" extracts in both the TNE rules and Survival Margin.
As is the case with any organization, there will be "bad apples", but the
stated goal of the RC is to be the "good guys", according to what has been
written thus far.
  Someone else (Cynthia, I think) mentioned the inevitible collapse of RC
ecomomies if they continue to be based solely on recovered technology. This is
very true, and the RC knows this, which is why the recovered tech is often used
to allow an enhancement of local manufacturing techniques. Aubaine is the only
starport in the RC which can build starships which are jump-capable, largely
because of Hiver technical assistance and recovered technology.  RC worlds ARE
working on building up their manufacturing techniques and recovering lost tech
levels;they simply feel that they don't have 200-300 years to wait. Will it
work? I don't know; that's part of what we'll find out, I suppose. The Regency
has a similar problem; they have better manufacturing tech, and a higher
overall technology level, but are simply running out of room for their economy.
Their overly paranoid fear of Virus has locked them in, and the economy will
bottom out soon unless they expand. So, the RC has to move beyond "chicken
stealing" (again, POT is fairly clear that the RCES does NOT take tech from
planets that need it! They take it only from dead worlds (now we'll hear the
accusations of grave-robbing...), despots and derelicts!) and into a more
profitable manufacturing mode, and the Regency simply needs more room, more
trading partners. A recipe for trouble when they meet? of course! It would
not be any fun otherwise...
   As for the criticisms which seem to say that the RCES has no right to
force planets to join-no one does! However, it has happened many times, not
only throughout our history, but through the fictional Traveller universe's
history as well. Students of this fictional history will recall the years
76-120; the Pacification Campaigns, during which the Third Imperium told many
worlds within it's sphere of influence, "Hello. You're going to join our Empire
now. And if you don't, we'll blockade you and have our diplomats harangue you
until you join. And if that doesn't work, we'll just invade you and MAKE you
join." They were not alone in this; the Vilani Consolidation Wars starting in
the year -5400 were essentially the same thing. I'm sure the Rule of Man did
likewise. So why is the RC any different?
  Is the RC more "enlightened" than the Imperium? Probably not, but they THINK
they are, just as we call ourselves "the land of the free" when large parts of
our population still experience problems just because of some stupid little
thing like the presence or absence of a chemical called melanin in their skin!
Can they BECOME more enlightened, or will internal pressures replace idealism
with cynical practicality? We'll see...
                                       Allen

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7141
From: stevenl184@aol.com
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 94 18:04:40 EST
Subject: Address confirmation

This is for yo to confirm my address.

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7142
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 16:51:41 PST
From: Ed Sharpe <esharpe@hsc.usc.edu>
Subject: Intro Adventure to introduce the new rules

Hello,

	I am looking for sugesstions for a short one shot adventure for my
players to introduce them to the new rule system (TNE).  Especially the combat 
system.  I have most traveller products (CT, MT, TNE) so If you have a good 
adventure from any of these products point me to it and I will do the 
conversion.

Thank you,

//
// esharpe@phad.hsc.usc.edu
//  You keep using that word.
//  I do not think it means what you think it means
//                           - Inigo Montoya

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7143
From: David Hoey <dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au>
Subject: Gauss Pistol Design
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 14:46:19 +0930 (CST)

The following is design for a silenced 10mm Guass Pistol.
To make the weapon totally silenced the muzzle velocity has to be 300 meters
per second.  This makes for light damage round if just using darts.  I included
HE and HEAP in the design for when the person shooting is no longer concerned
about making use.  Just change the magazine to HE and start doing some damage.

TL-12 10mm Silenced Guass Pistol.

Ammunition:                  10 x 50mm Convential
      Weight:                3 grams
      Cost:                  0.12 Cr Dart (Slug)
                             0.24 Cr HE
                             0.36 Cr HEAP
                             0.24 Cr Tranq.

Barrel:
      Muzzle Velocity:       300 meters per second
      Barrel Length:         3 centimeters
      Barrel Weight:         0.09 Kilograms
      Barrel Price:          54 Cr
      Muzzle Energy:         135 joules
      Required Energy:       270 joules
      Damage - Dart:         -1
             - HE:           4
             - HEAP:         4
             - Tranq:        -1*
      Penetration - Dart:    Nil
                  - HE:      Nil
                  - HEAP:    2-2-2
                  -Tranq:    Nil

Receiver:
      Type:                  Selective Fire
      ROF:                   5/10
      Receiver Weight:       0.032 Kilograms
      Receiver Length:       6 centimeters
      Receiver Price:        4 Cr

Stock:                       Hollow Pistol Grip
      Length:                0 centimeters
      Weight:                0.1 Kilograms
      Cost:                  25 Cr
      Range - Dart:          6 meters
            - HE/HEAP:       4 meters
            - Tranq:         4 meters

Feed System:                 14 round Grip Magazine
      Battery Weight:        0.023 Kilograms
      Magazine Weight:       0.055 Kilograms (empty)
                             0.097 Kilograms (loaded)
      Magazine Price:        1 Cr

Options:
      Optic Sight
      - Weight               0.1 kilograms
      - Price                150 Cr
      
      Laser Sight
      - Weight               0.5 kilograms
      - Price                300 Cr


Totals:
      Weight, Empty          0.822 kilograms
      Weight, Loaded         0.919 kilograms
      Length                 9 centimeters
      Bulk                   0
      Price                  533 Cr


                                Weights                         Price
Caliber            TL  Ammo     Empty  Loaded  Ammo   Mag       Wpn  Ammo
10mm gauss pistol  12  10x50mm  0.822  0.919   0.097  14/0.032  533  0.24/4.36

Features: Optic Sight, Laser Sight.


                                                        Recoil
Round                       ROF   Dam  Pen    Blk  Mag  SS  Brst  Rng
10mm gauss pistol-12 dart   5/10  -1   Nil    0    14   1   2/5   7
10mm gauss pistol-12 HE     5/10  4    Nil    0    14   1   2/5   5
10mm gauss pistol-12 HEAP   5/10  4    2-2-2  0    14   1   2/5   5
10mm gauss pistol-12 tranq  5/10  -1*  Nil    0    14   1   2/4   5

Notes:
Under damage for gauss weapons doesn't indicate to round fractions up or down.
With small arms if the damage is less than 0.8 it is -1 else it is 1.  I
used the small arms damage rule to this weapon as it had a daamge value of 0.7
for the dart.


- -- 
**************************************************************************
*  David Hoey          * Computer Science, Northern Territory University *
*  dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au * Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia           *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7144
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 10:58:58 +0200
From: Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no>
Subject: re: Bridge Crew          

DANIEL_T@delphi.com wrote:
>On page 82 of the Referee's Manual (step 7) it says that "The minimum b
>crew is 2." Yet in the Imperial Encyclopedia, on pages 80ff, the
>Scout/Courier, Seeker, Free Trader, Far Trader, Subsidized Merchant, Ya
>Laboratory Ship and Safari Ship, all have bridge crews of one. I couldn
>find any errata on this. What is the minimum bridge crew?

This is quite a problem. I would rule that if the ship are of such a
small size a lone bridgecrew would manage the ship far as it is unarmed.
Soon as you put on a weapon there should be either a gunner or a second
bridge crew. Unless you rule that another crewmember are not needed in a
position during a fight, and can man the turret then. Stewards and
maintenance crew fits in here. The main thing is what do you find most
appropriate for your campaign?


Roger "StarWolf" Myhre
                                           

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7145
From: gdw.support@genie.geis.com
Date: Fri,  1 Apr 94 05:11:00 BST
Subject: 

 
 Scott (two T):
 > > > Do ALL PA's and Meson Guns (even ground combat designs)
 > > > require Beam Pointers?
 > >
 > > Yes.
 > NOT TRUE! Read your own rules! See FF&S p89 quotation below!
 
 and herewith:
 
 > "All heavy (non-small arms) lasers, particle accelerators
 > and meson guns require beam pointers..."
 
 I _did_ read that particular passage, Scott, and I remarked to
 Dave Nilsen at the time that this sentence would be quoted at me
 sometime in the near future... : )
 
 The reason I went on to remark to Matt that our intention was
 not to allow small arms versions of PAs and Meson guns was that I
 thought there was room for ambiguity in that statement (which I,
 Frank, and Dave all interpret as requiring beam pointers in all
 PAs and meson guns).
 
 I will suggest that we amend the sentence to read as follows:
 
 "All particle accelerators, meson guns, and heavy (non-
 small arms) lasers require beam pointers..."
 
 Other than that Scott, I found it an interesting series of
 designs, particularly the anti-boarder weapon (referees intending
 on using this fiendish device should bear in mind that what's
 sauce for the NPC is sauce for the PC, however, and should apply
 it with equal vigor to opposing PC boarders). BTW, I made the
 Ghostbusters remark because (if I recall correctly) backpack
 particle accelerators figure prominently in both movies.
 
 Mark Urbin:
 >Thanks for the update, Loren! Is the Aliens book you
 > mentioned the `Aliens of the Rim' book listed in the
 > upcoming product release list?
 
 Yes. Schalli, Hivers and Ithklur will definitely be in it.
 Don't know who else yet (a lot of that depends on size
 constraints).
 
 Regarding the recent settlement between TSR and GDW (among
 other parties): A large number of rumors are circulating about
 this matter. I ask that you not clutter up the TML with
 discussion of them, but if anybody wants the truth about what
 happened, send me E-mail. I _will_ say that nobody got "screwed"
 by the settlement, and the rumors that GDW is going out of
 business as a result of the settlement are totally baseless.
 
           LKW
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7146
From: Jeff.Freeman@p5121.f1014.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Freeman)
Date: 01 Apr 94 20:29:00 -0500
Subject: TNE:What does the future hold


    Suject:  TNE: What does the future hold?
    From  :  Jeff Freeman

I thought that the direction in which The Viral-Imperium was
headed had already been decided -- just from reading the TNE
rulebook.

I refer to the shaded box of background blurbs on page 82.

Here's what I learned from this:

One, The Regency outlives the Star Vikings.  The first entry
is from "Regency Sector Governor..." and speaks of the Star
Vikings in the past tense.  This with the date NE 44.

Two, Dr. Elinor speaks of the Star Vikings, also in the past
tense (NE 135).  The striking thing about this entry is the
location of the source:  Diaspora!

Lastly, all four entries are *defending* the Star Vikings'
methods (or at least, their motives) -- from what?  General
consensus or popular opionion is my guess.

Observation:  If the Star Vikings fight the Regency (and I
agree completely, they must!) then the winner will go down in
history as "the good guys".  They will need no defense by
acadamians such as these.  The losers, apparently the RC,
would be vilified... to the point that some generations later
scholars would feel the need to set the record straight.

Compare:  American Indians.  For several generations,
Indians were regarded as Evil savages, (cowboys were held as
icons of virtue).  Only in the past 10 or so years have there
been attempts to paint the Indian's as noble environmentalists.
Probably the Indians were more like people, with good and
bad -- but the point is that the settlers *won*, and therefore
needed no moral defense.  They were recorded as "The Good
Guys".  Had the Indians succeeded in pushing Europeans from
American soil, no doubt the situation would be opposite.

From these background blurbs it seems clear that the Regency
must have swept down and reclaimed The Imperium -- in a matter
of 45 years!?  In only 135 years the push was on to honor the
Star Vikings as something other than plundering murderers.

In away, this is good news for the "Down with TNE, Long Live
the Imperium" crowd.  Push ahead 50 years and your beloved
Imperium is back... slightly more democratic (q.v. Changes in
the Regency), but The Imperium nontheless.




------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7147
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 94 14:42:40 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 5

Gentlesophonts:

From Thursday night:
 
Catie Helm <helm@geology.ucdavis.edu> writes:

> Uh, er...guys...it was the Dutch who traded 24 Tollars worth of junk 
> jewellry to the Iraquois for the rights to the island of Mahattan,
> in 1625.  William Penn was granted, by the English Crown, the new 
> world colony of Pennsylvania

Oops!  Guess my credibility has gone to pieces!  :-)

 
Chris Bertani <chrisber@netcom.com> writes:
 
> David Johnson writes:
> > So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
> > `Peter Plutocrat' come from?
> 
> 	Hivers?

Hmmmm, interesting point.  Do you mean to suggest that the Hivers have
`encouraged' a democratic culture in the Reformation Coalition?  Overtly or
more subtly?
 
 
Ray_Pullar <csh019@cch.coventry.ac.uk> writes:

> that the European Union is going through the trauma of birth at the moment

Etc.,

> expect that 300 years from now, the European Union will be much more
> united than it is now.

Sounds like we should move over to "alt.politics.comparative"!  :-)

Seriously though, I agree with your point and didn't mean to compare the
contemporary US with the EU except to illustrate, WRT the Reformation
Coalition, exactly the point that a new, fragmented government isn't going
to be as effective in it's foreign affairs as an established, centralized
one.

> So I think it's fair to say that the RC government is in the same
> position as the U.S. federal government just after the Revolution.
> Things are still up in the air as to the final form of the Constitution
> and the shape of the government.  And that is how it is described in
> Path of Tears.

Okay, but *then* I don't feel it's realistic to expect that the RCES (or any
other body of the RC) is going to function effectively - there is going to
be a lot of second-guessing, rescoping and retrenching going on back home.
The early US under the Articles of Confederation and during the first several
decades under the Constitution was not much of an international player at
all - much like the EU today.  NASA is another good example today - when
there is no consensus there is very little action.  Twenty-five years after
the Apollo moon landings NASA doesn't even have regular, reliable access
to low-earth orbit.

> discontent of the member worlds of the Imperium didn't seem to pose any
> threat to its' survival - why should it threaten the RC?

'Cause the the Imperium had a much bigger, TL15 stick?  A single battalion of
Imperial Marines could pretty much cow any but the highest pop and tech
worlds.

> David Johnson:
> > So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
> > `Peter Plutocrat' come from?
> 
> Uh...books?

Well, okay.  I'm sure Boris Yeltsin could get his hands on a copy of the
US Constitution if he tried.  Do you suppose he could just wave it in front
of Rutskoi and Zhironovsky and they'd become `democrats'?  I guess what I
should have asked is "how has the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as
much say as `Peter Plutocrat' become widely held among the citizens of the
Coalition (or the Regency) - especially among `Peter' and his chums?"

> Your view of the RC suffers from the fact that you haven't read Path of Tears.

This is probably the case.  But keep in mind that just because GDW writes
something in a sourcebook doesn't mean it makes sense or is consitent with
any sort of realistic situation.  Just because they describe a fragmented,
`coalition' government as being an effective `international' agent doesn't
mean Italy and Brazil are going to become world-class players next week.

Then again, in a 2D universe (here we go again) anything might be possible. :-)

> the RC don't steal high-tech gear off people who are using it correctly i.e.

Etc.,

> This doesn't sound like 'chicken stealing' to me.

Me neither.  The Coalition may not be `chicken stealers' at all.  *My*
point was that, with the sort of stable, centralized government that
was claimed for the Coalition (and this may also be at issue it appears now)
I didn't see it as realistic that the RCES could be *both* the `chicken
stealers' that some say are suggested by *Survival Margin* (I haven't read
*it* either!) and the `peace corps' that has been suggested by others.  Sure,
both elements may exist, but with a stable, central government one or the
other *will* predominate.  *I* don't know whether the Coalition government is
stable and centralized or not.  But *if* it is, then the general attitude
of the RCES will be *either* benevolent *or* malevolent - but again, *I*
don't know which.  I do know it won't be both - unless the government is
*unstable* and fragmented.  What about not having read *Path of Tears* draws
into question the validity of this arguement?  (Except that if `GDW says
it's so' then logic is irrelevant?)

Should we take a poll?  Those of you who have read *Path of Tears*: is the
Coalition government stable and central, unstable and fragmented, or somewhere
in between?  And if it's stable and central, is the RCES the `chicken
stealing Star Vikings' or the `exploring Peace Corps'?

> Vietnam, Granada and Panama.  Is the U.S. government an 'altruistic
> developer', a 'chicken stealer' or both?

More like an `800 pound gorilla'.  :-)  But this illustrates my point well.
The *annual* US foreign aid budget is dwarfed by just the cost of either the 
Grenada or Panama incursions.  (`Millions of dollars' sounds like a lot to
folks like me, but in the realm of US military operations it's `chicken feed'
if you'll pardon the pun.)  The US is sort of too big for `chicken stealing'
but we do insist on `getting our way' regardless of what folks think else-
where.  Both `altruistic' and these `pragmatist' attitudes exist in our
government but clearly the `pragmatist' attitude is dominant.  And because 
we're stable and centralized that `pragmatist' view is generally effective
in achieving its ends.
 
> I'm not sure from reading Path of Tears to what extent the RC
> tries to force a One True Way on the worlds it integrates.  The
> Federalist faction seems to believe in promoting diversity of
> cultures/political systems within the Coalition while the
> Feudal Technocrats seem to want to squeeze everyone they re-contact
> into their mould.  At the moment there is no clear indication which
> faction will come to dominate the Coalition. 

This seems to suggest that the Coalition government might *not* be stable
and centralized.  If this is the case, each bloc may be able to `protect' 
RCES groups which carry out each's particular `mission'.  This would
allow both the `good viks' and the `bad viks' to exist and in relatively
equal strengths but overall RCES effectiveness might then suffer because
the separate groups might often find themselves at odds and working at
cross purposes.  This, IMHO, sound like a *more* interesting setting
that a stable government with either a `benevolent' or `malevolent' RCES.
With all those guns and `take charge' types around though the Coalition
might even be heading for a `rebellion' (civil war) of its own!  This setting,
while not very original, might be still more fun to adventure in.

> of Lucan's territory).  Obviously the Virus has been busily at work
> there for the last 70 years building...something.  No doubt that
> something will be unleashed on an unsuspecting Universe in the near
> future.  I would expect the RC and the Regency to put aside their
> differences and fight this common enemy (anyone remember Fred
> Saberhagen's Berserkers?).

Good guess.  Or something equally `original' like, "I am Lucan of Virus.
You will be assimilated.  Resistance is futile . . . ."  The orcs are
coming, the orcs are coming . . . .  :-)

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7148
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 94 15:19:55 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 6

Gentlesophonts:

Still from Thursday night:

Cynthia Higginbotham <chiggin@aol.com> writes:
 
> Most of Rome's possessions
> were proud of their Romanized culture and of the protection of the
> legions...  AFTER a few centuries of Romanization. 

Well, I don't suppose the Romans let those who didn't agree (and yet somehow
managed to avoid a centurion's blade) write too many history texts.

> The cases you cite are all relatively modern,
> and had only a century, at most, to be assimulated by the invading
> culture.

Well, yes, but `assimilated' is an interesting word.  You may choose to
`assimilate' to my culture but if I *insist* you `assimilate' you might
call it `decimate' - assuming you survived the `assimilation'.  With 
`modern' examples we have better access to views other than those of the
`conquerors' than is the case with more historical examples.  Not too many
Gauls or Seleucids alive today but plenty of Ibos, Hmongs and Lakotas.

> And note that both Latin America and Africa have been glad
> to keep the *religions* of their invaders (Roman Catholicism in Latin
> America, Islam in much of Africa). 

Again, for those that `survived' the process of `assimilation'.  We may have
strayed over to "alt.history.political" but the point I guess, WRT
the Reformation Coalition, is that if they choose to practice this sort
of `assimilation' then, regardless of how they're portrayed in their
history books, we'd be hard pressed to describe them as `benevolent' in
TNE (at least I would be).
 
> David Johnson sez:
> So I ask, where does the idea that `Jane Everybody' has just as much say as
> `Peter Plutocrat' come from?
> - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cynthia:
>     Roman Republic, c.500 B.C.  Athens, c.700 B.C. (my dates on
> classical Greek civilization are fuzzy)  Anglo-Saxon and Scandanavian
> cultures 

Etc., 

>     The idea that "Jane Everybody' has just as much say as 'Peter
> Plutocrat' comes from incredibly ancient times when everyone in the
> tribe/clan contributed to its well-being, and thus had a say...

Well, again we've strayed into "alt.history.political" but Cynthia then
makes the point:

> Democracy or lack thereof rests
> solely on whether or not this assumption is held by the bulk of the
> populace.  If it is, a "presumed qualified" (Peter Plutocrat?)
> nobility will rule; if it is not, there will be revolution and unrest
> until the populace wrests the power of government from whomever was so
> foolish to presume that they had more right to make decisions about
> "Jane Everybody's" life than "Jane Everybody" did.

My question was not really `where this came from?' but rather `how it came
about?'.  Were all the former Imperial aristocrats guillotined (sp?) by
the founders of the Dawn League?  Democratic principles don't take hold
over night and the `Peter Plutocrats' don't just give up without a fight.
(Just ask Vladimir Zhironovsky.)  Regardless of the effects of the Rebellion,
Virus and subsequent collapse the Imperial aristocrats, but virtue of their
control of the greatest amount of resources, should have been best situated
to begin rebuilding.  Now, either they `got religion' and became `democratic'
(doubtful without a working example to enlighten them - would Yeltsin still be
a `democrat' if the West was aristocratic?) or someone displaced them like
the French revolutionaries did Louis XVI.

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 569
Archive-Message-Number: 7149
Subject: 71:4/9109 TRAVELLER BACKG
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri,  1 Apr 94 21:29:00 -0500

Subject: 71:4/9109 TRAVELLER BACKGROUND 3 - FUTURES?

 ::>Subject: Traveller Background 3

T::>Gentlesophonts:

T::>rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) asks:

T::>> Who wants a discussion area on the Regency?

T::>I do, for one - but why not just do it on TML?


T::>jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin) writes:

T::>>   the psychology that drives the Reformation
 ::>>   Coalition, and a glimpse of the kind of interstellar state that
 ::>>   they (and presumably the Hivers) want.

T::>What's the deal with the Hivers?  Where do they fit in with the RC?

 The Hivers made initial contact with what eventually became the
 Dawn League and the RC.  It's pretty well documented that the
 Hivers have ulterior motives, primarily that of not having
 xenophobic high tech autocracies in a position to hassle the Hive
 Federation.  Thus, the Hivers work with the RC to create stable
 governments, and in the process, influence the "direction" that
 the RC develops to suit their (the Hivers) needs.  Remember, the
 Hivers are already established as psychologists extraordinaire.

T::>>   The information that we
 ::>>   have on the Regency, though scantier, implies that the Regency
 ::>>   will be fundamentally based on the old Third Imperium model, with
 ::>>   some modifications.

T::>Probably.  Hasn't it already been suggested that the Regency is somewhat mo
 ::>`democratic' (whatever that means) than the Imperium?  But I would expect t
 ::>impression to be `altered' by a Regency sourcebook in a fashion similar to
 ::>way the `star viking' impressions of the RC were altered by *Path of Tears*

 Yes, it's more "democratic" (which I interpret to mean simply that
 there is more open communication and opportunity for feedback on
 issues that are politically sensitive and not time-critical, such
 as border control and expansion), but it's also smaller than the
 3I was.  If/As it expands, there will be _either_ less of this
 "democracy" _or_ a general trend toward decentralization (more
 powerful archdukes and/or sector dukes, or generally a philosophy
 of the higher you are in the hierarchy, the more you are concerned
 with overall policy direction rather than policy itself or
 operations).  In either case, you will tend to have a situation
 that follows old, comfortable patterns, which in the case of the
 Regency means the old 3I model.  But that doesn't stop you from
 modifying it to meet the needs of the governed...

T::>>   This will lead to a situation much like we see on
 ::>>   Terra today

T::>I'm not so sure.  Remember that high technology is basically a 
 ::>Western cultural tradition - other areas of Earth have 
 ::>different traditions that have not led to the development of 
 ::>high technology.  Now, admittedly, some of this is due to the 
 ::>advantage in ability to access and exploit resources that early 
 ::>industrialization has given the West but nevertheless the West 
 ::>enjoys certain cultural traditions that facilitate high 
 ::>technology.  Look at the efforts to develop legal structures in 
 ::>the former Soviet states that reduce the risks to investment 
 ::>necessary for high-tech endeavors.

 But that's exactly why I use present day Terra as a comparison 
 point.  The 3I was in no way homogeneous - either technologically 
 or culturally.  And at low tech levels, the differences will be 
 magnified, simply because technology is something of a 
 bootstrapping process - each little bit you get is a foundation 
 for a somewhat larger bit.  That's why pundits always characterize 
 technological growth as an exponential curve.  Certainly, it is 
 expected to level off at some point, but we don't know where 
 that point will be.  But the Collapse threw the 3I worlds back to 
 pretty low tech levels, and some of them will have been fortunate 
 enough to (a) have a cache of low-tech reference materials (a.k.a. 
 paper books), (b) be in an area that is relatively free of vampire 
 ships (as opposed to the Promise Main in Diaspora), and (c) have 
 avoided developing rabid xenophobia and/or technophobia.  These 
 worlds will form the nuclei of pocket empires or Reformation 
 Coalitia.  But you'll still have the dominant high-tech nucleus 
 with other worlds acting strictly as feeders for one or another 
 necessary foundation material.

T::>(I'm not trying to suggest that Western culture is somehow 
 ::>`better' than other cultures, merely that is is better suited 
 ::>to the practice of technology - that `technology' is part of 
 ::>the Western cultural tradition.  Whether that is a `good thing' 
 ::>or not remains to be seen.)

 And it is quite clear, and natural, that the GDW-designed 
 interstellar states should share that bias - all of the GDW 
 designers are, after all, North American Terrans from the 
 twentieth century, with all of the cultural baggage that comes 
 with that.

T::>Such will not be the case in the worlds that are `integrated' 
 ::>into the RC.  All former Imperial worlds, to a certain extent, 
 ::>will enjoy a `technological' cultural tradition.  They will not 
 ::>face many of the obstacles to technological development faced 
 ::>by non-Western cultures on Earth.

 Except that there is a lot of xenophobia that has developed, and 
 the technological tradition and cultural background wasn't all 
 that firmly entrenched on all of the worlds.  Remember, the static 
 Vilani culture was in control of most of Imperial space for a lot 
 of years; that's one culture that does not encourage innovation.  
 The Solomani made an impact on that culture far out or proportion 
 to its numbers, due to the encouragement of technological 
 development.  But the Solomani veneer can be expected to be quite 
 thin, as it was really only around for a couple of thousand years 
 (part of which was the Long Night - which saw many of the same 
 problems that the Wilds see now.)

T::>>   we're looking at the ghettoization of space, with all of
 ::>>   its attendant problems (again, look at present-day Terra for
 ::>>   examples of what can happen).

T::>Not necessarily.  Had TNE occurred several hundred years after 
 ::>the Rebellion maybe the technological traditions of the 
 ::>Imperium would have been lost but in just seventy years, or 
 ::>even 150 if it takes the RC that long to expand a great deal, 
 ::>those traditions will still exist.  Look at the Renaissance of 
 ::>Western Culture after the Dark Ages - much of what had been 
 ::>done in the Classical Era was quickly reincorporated into the 
 ::>culture.

 But classical cultures were the foundation for the Dark Ages 
 culture in the first place, and was more homogeneous than the 3I 
 was.  This is the point that you're overlooking.  While there were 
 definitely failures of policy, it's pretty clear that 
 _culturally_, the policy of the 3I was to step back and let them 
 go their own way.  They simply must follow a minimum set of rules 
 (i.e., no nukes, no slaves, and no violating extrality...), but 
 within those very broad constraints, freedom.  How else could 
 you have had TL4 charismatic dictatorships in the same Imperium as 
 TL 10 religious oligarchies and TL15 participating democracies? - 
 and think just how different the cultures that support these 
 different governments must be.

T::>>   However, the Regency will have access to the Jumpstart
 ::>>   caches

T::>Jumpstart caches?

 Mentioned in Arrival Vengeance.  Caches of resources that the 
 Emperor (or an archduke, perhaps; never really established) could 
 release to start massive public works projects in an economically 
 troubled area.  When Strephon essentially abdicated in Norris's 
 favor, he handed over the information and "passwords" as well.  

 Also mentioned was Longbow, which was hinted at as being possibly 
 a communications project of some sort, and one that may very well 
 be involved with psionics.  One of Strephon's comments to Norris 
 in connection with this was to watch the Zhodani, as they may 
 know.  Or some such comment as that; I'd have to look it up, and 
 AV isn't handy at the moment.

T::>>   we're going to see the (N+1)th Interstellar Wars/Pacification 
 ::>>   Wars/Wars of Integration/Coalition Wars/Regency Wars/Guild Wars.

T::>Of course we are.  :-)

 Yeah... that _was_ kind of stating the obvious, wasn't it... :)
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ ... the glorious failures and the glorious victories...

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #570: Msgs 7150-7156 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun Apr  3 22:00:01 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 03 Apr 94 22:00:02 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #570: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 570  7150 01-Apr-1994 Jeff Zeitlin     71:4/7121 Regency vs. RC << Subject: 71
 570  7151 02-Apr-1994 startrek76@aol.  Roger's Challenge << A while back, I re
 570  7152 02-Apr-1994 David Johnson    Traveller Background 7 << Gentlesophont
 570  7153 02-Apr-1994 "James M. Kelle  More campain bkg. << Hi Catie,
 570  7154 03-Apr-1994 Roger Sanger     Starport design... << I've always winge
 570  7155 03-Apr-1994 Roger Sanger     Moaning and groaning and the TML <<  
 570  7156 03-Apr-1994 Ron Dawson       Regency motives << Jeff Zeitlin and oth

------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7150
Subject: 71:4/7121 Regency vs. RC
From: jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri,  1 Apr 94 21:27:00 -0500

Subject: 71:4/7121 Regency vs. RC

T::>Jeff Zaitlin:

 That's "Zeitlin", but don't worry; I get that kind of thing all 
 the time...

 ::>  The Regency will also have the same kind of high-tech center,
 ::>  because the center did not lose the technology in the first
 ::>  place.  However, the Regency will have access to the Jumpstart
 ::>  caches, which will allow a more even development of the
 ::>  technological and industrial base - or, the Regency can do
 ::>  nothing, and allow the reintegrated areas to develop on their
 ::>  own.  In either case, the Regency is likely to have less of a
 ::>  ghettoization problem, as they have no need to scavenge high
 ::>  technology, and their expansion is not driven by a need to import
 ::>  from an external market.  High tech centers will develop, but not
 ::>  in such a way that they will be driven to focus on serving the
 ::>  needs of an already extant high-tech area.

T::>What amazes me is the fact that the Regency isn't already expanding
 ::>into Deneb and Corridor at a furious rate (or indeed, into Verge
 ::>via the Jump-5 route across the Great Rift).  Either the Regency
 ::>still fears Zhodani betrayal or a war with the Aslan colonies while
 ::>its' efforts are concentrated on rebuilding its trailing worlds or
 ::>it still believes there to be a strong threat from the Virus.

 No, it seems to be a little more complicated than that.  It seems 
 that there was one ship that got through the cordon, and as a 
 result, the planet of Gram suffered.  Badly.  The fallout from 
 that was that the _public_ perception (though not necessarily at 
 the highest levels of government) was that it was too dangerous, 
 from a Virus standpoint.  Also remember that they have to guard 
 the entire Vargr border.  Expansion into Corridor lengthens that 
 border, and it may not be feasible to maintain "adequate" border 
 controls.

 The J5 Route across the Rift leads from the Aslan Spinward 
 Colonies to what used to be the main body of the Hierate.  It's 
 not Norris's to exploit.  The Spinward Aslan may very well look to 
 Norris with much respect, and be inclined to follow his advice, 
 but they do not subordinate themselves to him, any more than the 
 Zhodani do.

T::>                                                               But
 ::>since the Virus (except for a few pockets here and there) has
 ::>largely disappeared there is nothing to stop it.  And with the
 ::>Regency's industrial base largely intact it should be able to
 ::>expand very rapidly.  Frankly, in a contest between the Regency
 ::>and the RC I don't see how the RC could win.  They are just too
 ::>small.  Which means that GDW must be planning on keeping the
 ::>Regency within its' existing boundaries for some time to come (to
 ::>give the RC time to catch up).  I don't personally find this credible.

 Different attitudes, different responses to a situation.  There 
 are people that did not find it credible that the US had no 
 interest in incorporating foreign countries into a US-controlled 
 (as opposed to merely dominated) empire.  Nevertheless, the US 
 never used this model, whereas it was the typical Soviet/Russian 
 model.  Nobody thought that the Terran upstarts could beat the 
 long-established Vilani empire, either.  Yet the Rule of Man 
 happened anyway.

T::>Jeff Zaitlin:
 ::>  Does the RC know that the Regency and the other Spinward states
 ::>  exist?  Do the Hivers?  Does the Regency know about the survival
 ::>  of the Hive Federation?  About the RC?

T::>What about the K'kree?  They've always been (pardon the pun) the
 ::>dark horses of the Traveller universe.  Could they make a bid
 ::>for increased living room (bigger, brighter pastures await you
 ::>in the ruins of the former Third Imperium).  But mabye they just
 ::>live too far away...

 Unlikely.  They wouldn't have had any defenses against Virus, 
 except distance.  And the Hivers were just as far, for the most 
 part.  The Hivers got bit, and only their sophisticated knowledge 
 of computers saved them.  Relations between the Hive Federation 
 and the Two Thousand Worlds were not so good that the Hivers would 
 have gone out of their way to help the 2KW.  Thus, the 2KW 
 suffered the same fate as the Aslan Hierate, the Solomani 
 Confederation, and the Third Imperium.

T::>Jeff Zaitlin:
 ::>  At this point in time, we must assume that the answer to all of
 ::>  these questions is "no" and that both the Regency and the RC will
 ::>  develop in their own way, until they meet.  That meeting is
 ::>  likely to occur due to both states attempting to integrate or
 ::>  build forward bases on the same planet.  With such a fundamental
 ::>  difference in outlook, we can expect to see armed conflicts, as
 ::>  the Regency tries to prevent undue interference in the internal
 ::>  affairs of a client or member state, while the RC is trying to
 ::>  mold the state into what they feel is an "appropriate" shape for
 ::>  membership.  Add to this mixture the Guild, which will try to
 ::>  keep both interstellar states out of the picture, and I think
 ::>  we're going to see the (N+1)th Interstellar Wars/Pacification
 ::>  Wars/Wars of Integration/Coalition Wars/Regency Wars/Guild Wars.

T::>This depends very much on any future political change within the
 ::>Regency.  It has already moved towards a more democratic system.
 ::>It's connection to the Third Imperium will taint it in the eyes
 ::>of most RCers but then, we can't all be perfect.  The RCer may
 ::>consider the Imperium to have been immoral in some of its'
 ::>practices but I don't think that they place it at the same level
 ::>as your average TED (basically what the Imps would have called a
 ::>barbarian with nukes).  The Imperium, whatever its' faults, was
 ::>civilised.

 Well, yes and no.  I think it depends more on the _cultural_ 
 attitudes than the _political_ ones.  And the two cultures are 
 very definitely at odds.  I don't see such drastic changes in 
 _either_ so as to be able to avoid these confrontations, and it's 
 not good for source material development, either.  I don't believe 
 it's a question of "_Will_ the wars happen"; I believe that it's a 
 question of "_When_" and "_Where_" they will happen.

T::>I'm not sure from reading Path of Tears to what extent the RC
 ::>tries to force a One True Way on the worlds it integrates.  The
 ::>Federalist faction seems to believe in promoting diversity of
 ::>cultures/political systems within the Coalition while the
 ::>Feudal Technocrats seem to want to squeeze everyone they re-contact
 ::>into their mould.  At the moment there is no clear indication which
 ::>faction will come to dominate the Coalition.  The RC is definitely
 ::>opposed to any government/society which routinely tortures, murders,
 ::>enslaves and otherwise oppresses its' citizens on a daily basis or
 ::>which regards outsiders as 'the enemy' or technology as 'evil'. I
 ::>think that a lot of the people in the Regency would also agree
 ::>with that.  It still leaves a lot of room for different kinds of
 ::>government.  I think that the RCers think that the attitude of
 ::>the Third Imperium towards its' member worlds was 'so long as
 ::>you pay your taxes, we don't care what you do to your people' or
 ::>'he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard'.  This kind of laissez-
 ::>faire, amoral attitude is definitely out the window.

 Consider what happened with technological development here on 
 Terra.  Whatever nation/empire, throughout history, was currently 
 on top, spread its culture throughout the "known world".  First 
 the Greeks, then the Romans, then the Italians and French, then 
 the Spanish and Portuguese, then the English and Germans, then the 
 Soviets and Americans.  With technological dominance and higher 
 education comes cultural dominance as well.  It's not a question 
 of _forcing_ the cultures into the RC or Regency mold; if that's 
 what I said or implied, please forgive me.  What I was thinking 
 was that the dominated cultures would be "exsimilated" into the 
 dominant culture, much the way American culture is now pretty much 
 global.  Yes, there will always be some elements of prior 
 cultures, and some of those aspects will be absorbed into the 
 dominant culture, but by-and-large, the "lesser" cultures change 
 to conform to the dominant.

T::>As far as the Guild is concerned, while it has high ambitions to
 ::>dominate interstellar space I think that it lacks the organisational
 ::>structure to do so, and that faced with an opponent like the Regency
 ::>it will quickly be removed as a power.  I think that it poses more of
 ::>a threat to the RC because the RC doesn't have the kind of resources
 ::>at its' disposal that the Regency has, and is spread much more thinly.
 ::>I expect the RC to dispose of the Guild in the next 10 years (unless
 ::>the Guild changes its' structure and becomes much more like a
 ::>government).

 One comment.  The United States was beaten in Viet Nam by what was 
 essentially a guerilla army of "regular irregulars."

T::>The next big plot development we can expect to see concerns the
 ::>Black Curtain.  Path of Tears mentions the "Vampire Highway" that
 ::>leads into the Core of the former Imperium (straight to the centre
 ::>of Lucan's territory).  Obviously the Virus has been busily at work
 ::>there for the last 70 years building...something.  No doubt that
 ::>something will be unleashed on an unsuspecting Universe in the near
 ::>future.  I would expect the RC and the Regency to put aside their
 ::>differences and fight this common enemy (anyone remember Fred
 ::>Saberhagen's Berserkers?).

 You assume that both will perceive it as an enemy.  All we know 
 right now is that the feeder leads corewards, and any planet that 
 starts to develop is sacked before it gets too far.  We thought 
 that the RC would be all bad, too, when all we knew about them was 
 that they were called "Star Vikings"...
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin                                      jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com
- ---
 ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ If it isn't borken, don't fix it.

------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7151
From: startrek76@aol.com
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 94 20:21:31 EST
Subject: Roger's Challenge

A while back, I read this: [obviously a challenge,  issued by: Roger Sanger.]
>IF YOU'RE A TRAVELER REF LIKE ME, THEN MY GUESS IS THAT YOU HAVE
>SOME OF, BUT NEED A LOT MORE OF THE FOLLOWING.....
          and there followed a lengthy list of practically everything, except
new planetary systems. Well, here is a brief discription of a new star
system, probably beyond the 
bounds of the old Imperium. This data might have easily come from an
automated servey
probe or maybe an Imperial Scout ship ....
PRIMARY STARS: 
          This system is a relativly far seperated binary with the two
components orbiting a common center of gravity in a nearly circular orbit
almost exactly 15 AUs apart. Both stars have attendant planetary systems.
          STAR A: Spectral class F7v. This main sequence star is slightly
larger and brighter
that Sol. It's radius is 2.25 times Sool, while its total luminosity is 8.28
x 10^23 kw [2.125 sol]
The mass of this star is 1.5 times that of the sun. It's color index is
+0.45, giving it an effective surface temperature of 6,600 K.
          STAR B: Spectral Class K3v. This is a cool organge star with a
radius 0.873 that of the sun and a mass of 0.7 sol.This star's total
luminosity is 1.79 x 10^22, or just under 5%
of the sun's luminosity. It'd color indesx is +1.10, giving it an effective
temperature of 4,150 K. 
          Both stars have five planets in orbit around them, the "Main"
planet is a double world
discribed in detail below which circles the "B" componet of the system. A and
B revolve around each other in a 38 year period.
          The planets of both systems receive heat energy from both stars,
therefor it is necessary when estimating the amount of energy receieved by a
planet to take into account not only the primary star around which the planet
orbits, but also the radiation from the companion star. This is especially
important for planets in the "B" solar system.
          {Note:} I use the total sub-solar temperature [Tss] of a planet as
a way of estimating if it gets enough solar radiation to support an 
"earth-like" climate. The earth's sub-solar temperature is 395 K.

SOLAR SYSTEM DATA 
STAR A                                                      PLANET NUMBER
                                            ONE           TWO        THREE   
    FOUR         FIVE
Distance [AU]                         0.45           0.73         1.60       
     3.35            5.20

Tss from Primary                    1,005 K       789 K       533 K        
368 K          296 K

Tss from Comp [max]                   68 K         69 K         71 K         
  76 K           82 K
                       [min]                    66 K         65 K          64
K           60 K           58 K 

Atmos Type                            Vacuum         Vacuum    Thin          
Dense        Massive   

Main Gases                                                                
SO2, CO     OXY            H, H2, He
                                              =====              ====     Kr,
Ar, Xe   NIT              DH, CH4 
                                                                             
     NO, NO2      CO2, H2O   NH3
                                                                             
                       Ar, He

Radius [km]                                 2,700        4,000          8,100
        6,500          65,500  
                                                                             
                                       [Gas Giant]
moons?                                           no            no            
 no           yes - 1      yes - 5

Mass [x earth]                                0.06           0.496       
1.358         1.000          195

STAR B                                          ONE         TWO        THREE 
     FOUR         FIVE

Distance [AU]                                0.29           0.575         
1.15           2.35          4.53

Tss From Primary                          480 K           341 K        241 K 
      168 K         124 K

Tss From Comp  {max}                     176 K          178 K        181 K   
     190 K        206 K
                         {min}                      172 K           171 K    
  168 K         162 K        153 K

Atmos Type                                   vacuum          thin            
vacuum     Dense  Massive

Atmos Gases                                    ====          Nitrogen       
=====    Nitrogen   H, H2
                                                                         NO,
NO2                      Oxygen    He, DH
                                                                         
NO3, CO                     H2O, CO2  CH4
                                                                         SO2,
Ar                          Ar, Xe     NH3

Radius [km]                                  3,600             5,900         
  2,600         special   26,200
Moons?                                           no              yes - 1     
      no             see        yes -6
Mass [xearth]                                 0.35              0.60         
     0.09           below    14.0


S P E C I A L >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
          The number four orbit slot in the "B" star system is filled by an
exotic double planet,
named Mega Earth and False Earth. They revolve around each other in a
circular orbit
242,580 kilometers in radius. False Earth completes a full revolution around
Mega Earth 
once every 145 hour, 57 minutes, 23.614 seconds.
MEGA EARTH. Called thus because of it's large radius of 15,093 km [2.37
earth]. A lack of
heavy metals and metals in general gives this world an average density oof
only 3.98 gm/cm^3. The surface gravity is 1.058 that of earth. 60 percent of
Mega Earth is covered by 
30-100 km deep water oceans in which live a wide array of both plants and
animals. The atmospher is rich in Nitrogen and Oxygen, whith traces of CO2,
H2O and Ar [vertually identical to earth.]
FALSE EARTH. This planet is virtually identical to earth in size, mass,
atmosphere, and richness of its ecology. The climate on both worlds ranges
from Arctic [-50 C] to cool temperate [+4 C to +18 C]. 
Neither world has a native sentient life form, but there are traces of
ancient {>10^7 yrs}
ruins of a high tech civilization scattered across the surface of False
Earth. 
Visually, Mega Earth looks like a sphere 7 degrees in diameter, or 14 times
the diameter of the full moon from False Earth, and False Earth looks to be 3
degrees in diameter from Mega Earth. Since both planets have a "CLASS M"
[oops, that's from another game!] enviroment, both would be suitable for
colonization.

===========================
===========================
Okay, Roger, is that anything akin to what you were looking for? 

Rick Blackburn 
StarTrek76@aol.com
or R.BLACKBURN2@genie.geis.com  
     

------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7152
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 94 20:44:52 CST
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Traveller Background 7

Gentlesophonts:

From Friday night:

Allen Shock <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
 
> Mr Johnson:
> You are effectively trying to lead a
> discussion about this without yourself having done any research on the
> subject.

Well, I wouldn't say I haven't done anything.  I do read what the rest of
y'all are posting - closely and with a great deal of interest.  I also am
a little uncomfortable with the idea of `leading' the discussion.  Maybe I
just post too much and need to get a life.  :-)

> You haven't read Path of Tears, or any of the material in the rulebook
> which pertains to the RC. This would be much akin to trying to lead a literary
> discussion without knowing anything about the author or his/her writings.

It's true I haven't read *Path of Tears* or *any* of the other TNE material
but, having actually lead a literary discussion or two in my day, I would
propose that one *can* examine another's presentation of a particular work
for internal consistency and reasonableness without having read the actual
work itself.  When someone points out that my understanding of the facts
of the RC (or any other aspect of TNE) are incorrect I have revised my
opinions, but again just because some GDW product says such and such doesn't
necessarily make it gospel.  My own interest in background stems from a
fascination with the need to keep any setting believable and consistent.
IMHO, GDW has stuggled with this sort of problem, as would be expected in
any multi-collaborative work, since the days of Classic Traveller.  

> Time
> and again, I can't help but think your understanding of these issues-and even
> your ability to play Devil's Advocate-would be enhanced if you would simply
> buy
> Path of Tears and read it.

Well, I might understand the `facts' better but I feel pretty comfortable 
with the `issues' (such as the effectiveness of a stable, central government
versus that of an unstable, fragmented one) now.  How would being in possession
of *Path of Tears* or any other TNE product better help one to understand
these sort of issues except to be able to say, "But GDW says so on page XX"?
If there's some specific issue you believe I'm not getting because I don't
have the rulebook please let me know what it is.

> If you then decide you don't care for TNE, I know
> two people you could sell your copy to if no one on the TML wants it.

Well, I'm not going to buy it.  If this means I can't `play' just let me
know and I'll shut up.  :-)  I'd like to think I can still discuss the
background without having to buy in to the product.  Maybe we should move
our discussion on to the Regency and other areas and then this issue of
what's in the GDW `bible' wouldn't be relevant?  It seems to me though that
most folks are unwilling to discuss the Regency much because GDW hasn't
weighed in yet with a sourcebook.  If this is how things are going to be
then why discuss anything?  We can all just wait for the next sourcebook
for GDW to tell us what's going on.

>    You seem to be interested in this "good vik, bad vik" thing. 

Well, actually, no.  What I've been trying to insist upon is consistency.
My own view is that a fragmented Coalition with `empire-builders' (Centrists?)
and `altruistic developers' (Federalists?) competing for control is the most
interesting but I don't see this as being possible with a stable, centralized
government.  I don't know how exactly reading *Path of Tears* would settle this
issue. I've read reviews of *PoT* here on TML that have come down on *both*
sides of the fragmented/centralized Coalition government issue.

> The RC is
> like any other government; it can fall prey to corruption and infighting, and
> the danger of this is already evident in the war of words between the
> Centrists
> and the Federalists.

My point is that regardless of what the pols back home are pontificating about
if the RCES is being truly effective then it is getting consistent direction
and the debates in the Assembly are largely irrelevant.  If this is the case,
then the RCES is either going to be generally `benevolent' *or* `malevolent',
but not both.  Under these conditions my preference would be to play the RCES
as `benevolent'.

On the other hand, if the Assembly debates are affecting the RCES mission
then the RCES will suffer from a lack of consistent direction and both 
`benevolent' *and* `malevolent' vikings will exist and each will enjoy 
succor from its respective bloc.  The overall RCES mission will be less
effective under these conditions but the adventure potential is enhanced in
my view.

> However, the RCES sets standards for it's troops;
> according
> to the book, they want to avoid the reputation for being as bad or worse than
> the invaders from previous times (the Solomani and the Imperium) were.

The RCES may set standards but those standards, or at least the degree to which
they are enforced, will depend upon the direction received from the govern-
ment (this is a result of that wonderful `democracy' stuff).

> They
> are spread very thin, however, and must sometimes hire freelancers and THEY
> don't have to follow accepted RCES procedures.

A nice excuse but if the RCES is `benevolent' then abuses will be minimized
as the `abusers' are not retained or disciplined and other potential `abusers'
learn that abuses won't be tolerated.  On the other hand, if abuses *do*
continue and become the pattern then one has to question the motivations of
the RCES itself. 

> This combined with propaganda
> from the Star Guild (who coined the name "Star Vikings" to conjure up just the
> sort of negative imagery that it seems to invoke in many people around here)
> is what results in the view that history will have of the RCES, as denoted in
> several "future history" extracts in both the TNE rules and Survival Margin.

What I suspect is really going on here is the `rehabilitation' of the RCES
by GDW.  Early releases painted them as bloodthirsty `Space Vikings' but
subsequent thought felt this might not be a favorable enough image.  (Sort 
of like when the producers of the third *Star Wars* film forced Paramount
to change the name of *Star Trek II* from "The Vengeance of Khan" to "The
Wrath of Khan" to avoid conflict with the working title of the third *Star
Wars* film, "Revenge of the Jedi" which was subsequently changed when someone
belatedly pointed out that `revenge' was `not the Jedi way'.)

> As is the case with any organization, there will be "bad apples", but the
> stated goal of the RC is to be the "good guys", according to what has been
> written thus far.

Fine.  Goals are nice.  But the character of the Coalition government is going
to affect the actual *conduct* of the RCES much more than any set of goals.
This is not a criticism but rather an realistic expectation that, IMHO, can
lead to some very interesting adventure possibilities.

> The Regency
> has a similar problem; they have better manufacturing tech, and a higher
> overall technology level, but are simply running out of room for their
> economy.
> Their overly paranoid fear of Virus has locked them in, and the economy will
> bottom out soon unless they expand.

Okay, let's discuss the Regency for a moment.  I'm not sure I agree that the
Regency has to continue to expand in order to survive (sounds like Reaganomics
to me!) but assuming it *wants* to expand it faces several challenges besides
the threat of the Virus.  (And be warned, the following views are expressed
without the benefit of access to the `official' TNE material.)  The Regency
must be secure that no threat will arise from the Zhodani, the Aslan or
the Vargr.  It must be convinced that whatever gains are to be made by
expanding into regions devastated by the Virus will offset the risk involved
in venturing into these `unclean' regions.  It must be convinced that the 
exisiting Virus quarantine will be maintained and that it will not have to
deal with an incursion of the Virus into the interior.  It must be prepared
to accept the possibility of encountering a hostile major power that makes
similar claims to the legitimacy and heritage of the Imperium.

BTW, has TNE dealt with the Darrians and Sword Worlders?  Maybe the Regency
can hire Sword Worlds mercenaries for that fateful encounter with the
Coalition some day?

> So, the RC has to move beyond "chicken
> stealing" (again, POT is fairly clear that the RCES does NOT take tech from
> planets that need it! They take it only from dead worlds (now we'll hear the
> accusations of grave-robbing...), despots and derelicts!)

Well, okay, except that we've already established that the RCES gets to make
its own determinations about who's `dead', `despotic', or `derelict'.
Certainly, if the US can be threatened by Grenada, then the potential exists
for *significant* abuses of the RCES `principles'.

>    As for the criticisms which seem to say that the RCES has no right to
> force planets to join-no one does! However, it has happened many times, not
> only throughout our history, but through the fictional Traveller universe's
> history as well.

Well, yes, but then it would be difficult to make the case that the RCES are
`good guys'.  Wouldn't they just not be any worse `bad guys' than anyone
else then? 

> So why is the RC any different?

Indeed!  Isn't this the question I asked several weeks ago when I asked what
TNE had to offer over CT/MT?  :-)

>   Is the RC more "enlightened" than the Imperium? Probably not, but they THINK
> they are, 

Well, great, but as real folks aren't we able to make some sort of judgement
about the validity of this claim?

My sense is we've pretty much beat the Coalition to death at this point now
as well.  (Don't let that stop you if you've still got a point.)  Maybe it
would be good to move on to Rodge's suggestion of a Regency discussion?  I
know some of you have expressed a preference for the Regency over the Coalition.
Tell us why.  And tell us what challenges you see the Regency facing.

What about all those Pocket Empires?  Someone has suggested that the Coalition
is just another Pocket Empire with some Hiver technical assistance.  If this
is the case then all(?) those Pocket Empires might provide as much potential
as the Coalition has.  Who's adventuring in Pocket Empires?

And we've yet to hear much about non-TNE Imperium campaigns or from completely
non-Imperium Traveller campaigns.  Mayday, mayday, calling all backgrounds.

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7153
Subject: More campain bkg.
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 94 21:24:38 PST
From: "James M. Kelleher" <kelleher@holonet.net>

Hi Catie,

No you didn't Date me, She was one of the first Characters I ever rooled up
from those three little books... As to her being a countess the GM at the 
time said lets find out where she is countess of so I rolled to find the page
in that new! book The Spinward Marches and then the planet... The rest is
as they say history. So when Norris was written up we looked at the structer 
of the nobility and it became obvious as DGP pointed out Counts have 
( Usually ) three worlds they administer dukes have a subsector. Norris 
then was the Sector duke... Of course they knew eachother and at least in my 
campain are close friends and he respects her advice.
In the campain during the 5th fronteer war she was put in the same 
"Hospital" as Norris for their "Health" They were busted out ( That is a long
story but her husband had something to do with it...) and Norris gave her  
Command of the second defense of Regina. It was at Norris' request that she
and her husband where made duke adn duchess by Strephon shortly before his 
untimly death...Here is an adventure in alternat Imp. History suppose that 
there where some under cover Noble PSI's in that throne room and they  where
able to prevent the assassination! hummm interesting...
any way that is how I started my MT Campain which is on it's Third group
now The assassination had occured and the group is waiting for the luxury
liner that they had tickets for to leave the Capitol and when i tleft they 
found that there was a killer on board their job... find the assassion and the 
target. I must say I was happy they figured out the killer but blew it on the
target, They kept their cover, to this day 032/1122 They do not know that 
they were Couriors from the Emporer to Norris!
Now they are more background and patrons as they are busy with larger affairs
than the Group...
However I am working on their kids as Catie and I have mapped out soem of the 
future of the "Regancy" up to about 1130. The group that is playing now is 
in 1121 or 22 I'm not shure ...
that is Marcus and Co.
They are presently on a weird covert mission close to the Consulate.
the Consulate knows but are not talking.
We will see who survives...

****************************
RULES QUESTION ALERT

I am working on Jan the countessess son.
he is sent to the Naval Academy and enters Naval Career
Musters out as soon as he con He didn't like the navy ( Sacrolige!!!)
he shuffles around for a year as a Wealthy Traveller.
then runs away to join the SCOUT Service ( Dad's service [much to Mom's 
disguest...]) the question is how do I accunt for the year?
in T:TNE everything is done in four year blocks.
I personally know that a year's travel can be very edgicational...
hummm give him one fourth of the skills listed for the first term?

END Alert
*******************************

The thinking we have been doing has mostly already been posted last time.
so I'll Stop Babbling now
Honest
really

jim




- -- 
Remember: no matter where you go...
There you are...
B. Banzi

James M. Kelleher
kelleher@holonet.net


------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7154
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 07:22:14 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Starport design...




I've always winged starports at my roleplaying sessions, but I've got
an adventure coming up that is likely to take place primarily at a 
starport, so I need something a bit better defined than my adlibbing.

I shall therefor be designing a starport, but I have no idea what I
should put in it.

WHAT IS IN A STARPORT?

	Rodge.


------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7155
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 1994 07:28:45 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Moaning and groaning and the TML


 
 
 
To: Anthony "K." Baggaley <mcdapab@prawn.ch.umist.ac.uk>
 
 
 
Dear Anthony:
 
Here are my responses to your comments posted on March 16th:
 
 > Well it looks like all the moans about GDW's massive incompetence
 > and discussions over obscure traveller/science facts has all moved
 > to the gdw-beta list. Pity, that's what I really liked about the
 > TML, but I'm sure all the TNE players out there wouldn't agree...
 
I say, moan and groan all you want.  The TML is an open forum.
It's not like there is a set limit on the amount of material it
can hold. Anyone who doesn't like what you have to say can skip
your messages and read the ones they like.  That's what I like
about the TML -- it's a real potpouri.  Sure, a pocket can be
nice to concentrate efforts, but general discussions about
Traveller is what TML was made for -- and what can be more
general than the very rules through which the game is played?
 
BTW, would someone please post some info about how to join the
gdw-beta list?
 
 > I just thought I'd try answering a few questions people asked
 > yesterday. (It's either that or my 'why TNE is trash' flame, and
 > I'm still collecting evidence for that)
 
TNE has its good points and bad.  I like the campaign, though it
saddens me that CT and MT are no longer supported commercially
with new material (TTC and TML are notable exceptions).  Thank
goodness for TML!
 
 [excerpts follow...]
 > "Michael A. Masten" asked
 > >I have a question about the Virus that keeps getting mentioned in TNE.
 > >What is it and where did it come from?
 >
 > What is it?2- depending on peoples point of view, it is also-
 >   1) a way to turn Traveller into a 'Dark Future' RPG, while still
 >      being able to say 'No, it's about REBUILDING society, honest-
 >      we only need the Fusion Rifles for our own protection'
 >   2) a way to release a new Traveller set that didn't need new
 >      players to learn the whole Imperial background (destroying
 >      90% of it may have rather overdone the idea)
 >   3) a way to clean out a background that was just too big and
 >      complex for the new design team to cope with.
 >   4) a way to destroy the Imperial background... just because they
 >      could.
 >   5) a way to annoy me- personally :)
 >
 > Where did it come from?2- again, depending on who you ask-
 >    1) TNE designers-  Frank and Dave (the Game Guys)
 >    2) several other people- but don't claim GDW nicked any ideas
 >       off you, or they'll sue!
 >    3) someone who didn't know squat about computers or the Traveller
 >       background
 >    4) a bad dream
 
 
Boy, they REALLY got to you didn't they?  Heck, I don't plan on
using TNE (the campaign) for years to come -- not until they
finish the rules, and generate enough background to work with.
I'm quite interested in seeing what they come up with, so I am in
part financing that endeavor by purchasing their products as they
come out.  But I've spent so much time and effort developing the
Spinward Marches, that it makes sense to me to make use of my
custom materials for that region, rather than start developing
another region (the Old Expanses) from scratch and fear that it
will conflict with GDW's ongoing developments for the same
region.
 
 > As for the merits of various backgrounds, the only 'merit' I can
 > see in TNE is that the 'area of interest' i.e. the area that the
 > published background covers, is less 'civilised'. PCs have more of
 > a chance to act as bloodthirsty criminals and get away with it, with
 > smaller governments or no government in most areas. It has an
 > advantage- with all these smaller ponds PCs have more chance to be
 > big fish, which should suit some people and could be interesting
 > if they use this power for anything other than stealing chickens.
 > However, most Arses background I've seen implies they prefer to
 > 'shoot people with big guns'- I get the impression it's this that's
 > making TNE so popular (not on this mature list of course :>)
 >  That you could do all this in CT, just outside of the Imperium,
 > means TNE has no real improvement over CT. But, again, it depends
 > who you ask...
 
As a Spinward Marches ref, I don't see TNE as a drawback or a
setback.  If anything, it enhances Spinward Marches/Regency
campaigns, because the borders actually become frontiers.  And
since the Regency, the Zhodani Consolate, the Darrian
Confederation, and the Sword Worlds -- and in my campaign the
spinward "land grants" (Foreven, Far Frontiers, Vanguard Reaches,
The Beyond, etc.) -- will have survived for the most part intact,
civilization will have continued to advance there
(population-wise, culture-wise, and technology-wise), NOT
regressed.  Civilization will be just a bit smaller as a whole,
'tis all.
 
 >  Now, HEPlaR vs. Thrusters... Oh boy, when did you get here?
 > You certainly missed the big fight over Fusion Drives when TNE
 > came out.
 
Yes, I missed it too.  I think I better play that "most American
of games" and catch-up before I let my fingers go crazy at the
keyboard on this one.
 
Later,
Rodge.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 570
Archive-Message-Number: 7156
From: rdawson@business.carleton.ca (Ron Dawson)
Subject: Regency motives
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 10:44:40 EDT

Jeff Zeitlin and others write:
>  ::>via the Jump-5 route across the Great Rift).  Either the Regency
>  ::>still fears Zhodani betrayal or a war with the Aslan colonies while
>  ::>its' efforts are concentrated on rebuilding its trailing worlds or
>  ::>it still believes there to be a strong threat from the Virus.
> 
>  No, it seems to be a little more complicated than that.  It seems 
>  that there was one ship that got through the cordon, and as a 
>  result, the planet of Gram suffered.  Badly.  The fallout from 
>  that was that the _public_ perception (though not necessarily at 
>  the highest levels of government) was that it was too dangerous, 
>  from a Virus standpoint.  Also remember that they have to guard 
>  the entire Vargr border.  Expansion into Corridor lengthens that 
>  border, and it may not be feasible to maintain "adequate" border 
>  controls.
>
   That was my impression as well from reading Survival Margin and the
   TNE book on the Regency.  It was primarily public opinion resulting
   from the Trin incident that holds the Regency behind its lines, at
   least officially.  There may be factions in the government that are
   in fact operating in virus space, but of course the public can never
   know about that.  I can see a lot of potential there for campaign
   ideas.

   A related issue is the economy of the Spinward States.  In Survival
   Margin, they say that "there are no limitless resources or 11,000
   worlds" and in the TNE book "The Regency's economy has become
   overheated, and without access to new markets and new sources of
   raw materials, say the economists, it is bound to falter".  

   In 1196, the Regency held the referrendum about expanding into the
   wilds, which the public overwhelmingly rejected.

   I suspect that the current statements of economists may also be a
   manipulation of public opinion by factions within the
   government/academia/intelligentsia to convince the general public to
   accept the idea that expansion in _inevitable_ or that stagnation and
   decline will be the result.  That is, afterall, the same tatic used
   by our own governments to try and manipulate opinion regarding NAFTA,
   GATT, etc, even when the assertions are often suspect.  If you can
   get "in" economists with sufficient access to the media saying
   something long enough, it can become an accepted "fact" in
   time.  

> 
> T::>The next big plot development we can expect to see concerns the
>  ::>Black Curtain.  Path of Tears mentions the "Vampire Highway" that

The Vampire highway? Vampire Imperial Highway? Ahh.. the Vampire
Information Highway!  They are computer life forms, afterall.
GDW combines the information hypeway and the vampire craze :-)

Does this highway pass through "alternate pocket empire setting" in the
TNE book? Kaggushus is pretty close to the Black Curtain.

- - Ron Dawson


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
